A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Racing
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

VDB admits doping...?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #121  
Old October 9th 03, 09:16 PM
Kyle Legate
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default VDB admits doping...?

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Dumbass -

They've gotten it to work in mice and primates.

This proves nothing. Most stage 1 clinical trials fail in humans, but pass
in rodent and primate models.


Ads
  #122  
Old October 9th 03, 09:19 PM
Kyle Legate
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default VDB admits doping...?

Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

The problem is verification. Genetic vaccines (right now) are not
detectable.

If an athlete suddenly shows up with 80% hematocrit, that's pretty damn
detectable.

That's pretty amazing to me that you could read that article about
changing the EPO gene (raising the hct as high as 70%) and think that
it's impossible for a genetic vaccine to have a significant impact on
performance.

As long as the impact you're looking for involves spending lots of bed time
in a hospital.


  #123  
Old October 9th 03, 09:26 PM
Kurgan Gringioni
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default VDB admits doping...?


"Kyle Legate" wrote in message
s.com...
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
"Kyle Legate" wrote in message
s.com...
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

The on the fringe athletes aren't going to care about those clinical
trials or side effects and they won't be getting the stuff from a
normal lab.

Where are they going to get it from, then? You're talking about a
highly technical endeavor here (creating a functional gene vaccine);
it won't be available from a drug store or a family doctor.



Dumbass -

Where do they get EPO from? The drug store or the family doctor?

Dumbass -

They get EPO from a drug store. But you will not be able to obtain an
engineered virus from a drug store. Once again you fail to answer my
question and attempt to steer the discussion away from your failure by
asking an unrelated question.




mmmm hmmmm. Sort of like where TT got her drug from?

The drug store. uh huh.


  #124  
Old October 9th 03, 09:34 PM
Kurgan Gringioni
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default VDB admits doping...?


"Kyle Legate" wrote in message
s.com...
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:

Dumbass -

They've gotten it to work in mice and primates.

This proves nothing. Most stage 1 clinical trials fail in humans, but pass
in rodent and primate models.




Most.


But not all.


Your claim is that *all* genetic vaccines will be ineffective for performance
enhancement, at least before the next Athens Olympics (a century from now?).


It only takes one or two.


My position is that performance enhancing genetic vaccines will be abused in
the same way the performance enhancing drugs are abused. Drugs - which in
your words - "most stage 1 clinical trials fail in humans, but pass in rodent
and primate models."


But not all drugs. Or is your position also that drugs are not used for
performance enhancement?


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Armstrong Angry About Break-In - Planting Doping Agents !! Churchill General 8 July 18th 04 09:17 AM
Doping or not? Read this: never_doped Racing 0 August 4th 03 01:46 AM
Ullrich admits Stage 5 stomach trouble one of the six billion Racing 6 July 17th 03 09:16 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.