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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 22nd 06, 01:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

This one has me minded to reach for the cluebat:


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...097961,00.html

Emilie Harris, 20, was crushed under the wheels of the single decker
bus after she was knocked off her mountain bike two years ago in
Oxford city centre.

Ms Harris, a first-year student of human sciences at St Catherine’s
College, died instantly.

The inquest was told that the driver, Paul Willis, 47, was chatting to
colleague Henry Stuart who was standing on a platform at the front of
the bus seconds before the student was killed.

Richard Whittington, the assistant deputy coroner for Oxford, said
that Mr Willis had broken drivers’ regulations by having someone on
the platform at the front of the bus.

Police Constable Stephen Moffat, who investigated the incident, said
Mr Willis had been travelling too fast and too close to Emilie.

He said that although the bus had been travelling at under 25mph at
the time of the incident, he should have been doing the same speed as
Emilie’s cycle, which was believed to have been travelling at 8mph.

“He had not given himself any margin for error,” he said. “I think he
should have been travelling at the same speed as Emilie. He should
have weighed up what was ahead of him.”

Witnesses told the inquest how they had heard a “thud” shortly before
the bus ran over her body.

CCTV images taken from the bus showed Emilie cycling in front of the
bus two seconds before she was run over.

Emilie, who was wearing a crash helmet, was wearing flip-flops on the
day of the incident in May 2004, which may have contributed to her
falling off the bike, the inquest was told.

Recording a verdict of accidental death Dr Whittington said that
having his colleague on the platform next to him must have been a
distraction to the driver.

But he added: “Whether Mr Stuart [his colleague] actually obstructed
the vision forwards is unlikely but his presence there must have been
a distraction.”

“There is no question of Emilie’s death being caused by dangerous
driving, this is sadly an accident.

“For some reason she had lost control of her bike. It has been
suggested her flip-flops could have been the reason, or she panicked
because she heard the sound of the bus or she might have looked back.
I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the
accident.”

A spokesman for the Oxford Bus Company said after the inquest: “Ever
since the tragic accident our thoughts have been with Emilie’s parents
and family. They continue to have our deepest sympathy. We cannot
comment further at this stage as a court case involving the driver is
still active and until that is finished our own inquiry into the
incident and any possible disciplinary action can not be concluded.”

Police said after the inquest that court proceedings against Mr Willis
would now resume.

He is charged with careless driving and breaching public service
vehicle regulations. His colleague who was on the bus at the time,
Henry Stuart, faces the latter charge.

Emilie’s parents Martin and Judy Harris, both 52 and from Shawford,
Hampshire, attended the inquest but made no comment afterwards.

Guy
--
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  #2  
Old March 22nd 06, 01:46 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

Guy wrote:
This one has me minded to reach for the cluebat:


I need a new dictionary - the definition mine gives for "dangerous"
appears to be wrong.

d.
  #3  
Old March 22nd 06, 02:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

Just zis Guy, you know? a écrit :
This one has me minded to reach for the cluebat:


[...]

So sad story... and as usual, deep suspicion concerning the cyclist
behaviour.

This *enforces* once again my determination to keep the middle of the
lane in some very narrow streets.
To be shouted or horned is better than be crushed... and you almost
always have the next red signal to quietly explain to the driver why you
did that (in France 1 meter lateral distance in town and 1,5 meter in
country is mandatory when a motor vehicle overtakes a cycle).

--
Marien
  #4  
Old March 22nd 06, 02:21 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

Marien LEBRETON wrote:
To be shouted or horned is better than be crushed...


Agreed, but I'm not sure if it is strictly relevant to this case -
there's nothing in the story to suggest she was riding in such a way as
to make it hard for the bus driver to see her.

It seems the bus driver just wasn't looking where he was going. It seems
the first he knew of the cyclist was the crunch as she went under his
wheels. In these circumstances, hanging, drawing and quartering would be
lenient treatment for the bus driver.

d.
  #5  
Old March 22nd 06, 02:47 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

Simon Bennett wrote:
It seems all the blame is on the cyclist for falling off.


Eh? Oh, I think I didn't read the article closely enough at first. I
might have to modify my previous comments. Slightly.

Since a thud was
heard, isn't it possible that the bus actually ran her down?


I initially thought that was the implication of the coroner's comments,
but now I'm not so sure...

"I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the
accident."

Well, yes... it would be pretty hard for a cyclist to stay upright while
a bus drives over her.

The only concrete factor against Emilie was that she was wearing flop-flops
which 'may' have caused her to slip on the pedals. Dr Whittington seems to
have taken this and run with it, along with some other vague assumptions
about her being scared of buses (very odd for a cyclist in Oxford!).


Vague assumptions seem to be par for the course in this type of incident
- anything to avoid the possibility of having to blame the motorist.

To be fair, he does seem to be suggesting that the bus /was/ the cause
of her fall, whether it was from being physically knocked over or just
through intimidation.

d.
  #6  
Old March 22nd 06, 03:02 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

davek wrote:
Simon Bennett wrote:
It seems all the blame is on the cyclist for falling off.


Eh? Oh, I think I didn't read the article closely enough at first. I
might have to modify my previous comments. Slightly.


That's the way I read it -- she fell off and then the bus ran over her.

Since a thud was
heard, isn't it possible that the bus actually ran her down?


I initially thought that was the implication of the coroner's
comments, but now I'm not so sure...


Cyclists don't make thudding sounds when they fall onto tarmac.

"I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the
accident."

Well, yes... it would be pretty hard for a cyclist to stay upright
while a bus drives over her.


PC Moffat could win awards for inexactitude. The number of times he uses /I
think/ and /might/. They have no place in a court, surely? If there's doubt
about something, shouldn't an expert be consulted? Nah, too costly.

To be fair, he does seem to be suggesting that the bus /was/ the cause
of her fall, whether it was from being physically knocked over or just
through intimidation.


"Dr Whittington said [...] For some reason she _had_ lost control of her
bike." would suggest she came off before being run down.

"It has been suggested her flip-flops could have been the reason, or she
panicked
because she heard the sound of the bus or she might have looked back."

I don't think he's suggesting that the driver intimidated her. I think it's
a case of victim blaming. The implication being that timid cyclists are a
liablity to themselves. In my experience, people don't panic and fall off
when they hear buses approaching; usually they pull over and stop if they're
that worried.

"I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the
accident."

Again, lots of convenient 'thinking' going on.


  #7  
Old March 22nd 06, 03:48 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:05:47 +0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy,
you know?" wrote this:-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...097961,00.html

Emilie, who was wearing a crash helmet,


Another helmet that failed to prevent the wearer being killed.

was wearing flip-flops on the
day of the incident in May 2004, which may have contributed to her
falling off the bike, the inquest was told.


If it wasn't sad it would be amusing. She undoubtedly fell off the
bike because it was hit by the bus. Why do some find this difficult
to understand, or are they seeking to blame the victim?


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54
  #8  
Old March 22nd 06, 03:51 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

Simon Bennett wrote:
It seems all the blame is on the cyclist for falling off. But the first para
says she was knocked off becsue the driver was distracted. Since a thud was
heard, isn't it possible that the bus actually ran her down? Odd that the
CCTV ends two seconds before impact, and odd that the driver had
conveniently finshed chatting seconds before the incident.

The only concrete factor against Emilie was that she was wearing flop-flops
which 'may' have caused her to slip on the pedals. Dr Whittington seems to
have taken this and run with it, along with some other vague assumptions
about her being scared of buses (very odd for a cyclist in Oxford!).


You need to understand the Law. To convict for Dangerous Driving you
need to have evidence that the driving has (usually consistantly)fallen
far below that expected. A moments inattention that causes death is not
covered. I believe that 'Causing Death by Careless Driving' is a new
offence proposed in the new Road Safety Bill.

I'm afraid we all make errors. It is much more important to get the
dangerous and aggressive drivers off the road BEFORE they kill anyone.

I'm not saying such incidents shouldn't be punished, but the level of
punishment for Dangerous Drivers needs to be far more severe.

To get Dangerous Drivers off the road needs the Police to enforce the
Law and not wait for accidents to happen.

Jim Chisholm
  #9  
Old March 22nd 06, 03:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

David Hansen wrote:

She undoubtedly fell off the
bike because it was hit by the bus. Why do some find this difficult
to understand, or are they seeking to blame the victim?


Because, if the court accepts that the bus ran down the cyclist, it would
reflect badly on the driver. If the cyclist is believed to have fallen into
the path of the bus, then it lessens the driver's responsibility, "There was
nothing I could do. She came out of nowhere." etc, etc.


  #10  
Old March 22nd 06, 04:01 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Default Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving

J. Chisholm wrote:

You need to understand the Law. To convict for Dangerous Driving you
need to have evidence that the driving has (usually
consistantly)fallen far below that expected. A moments inattention
that causes death is not covered. I believe that 'Causing Death by
Careless Driving' is a new offence proposed in the new Road Safety


I'm not so concerned with the law. Though it does seem odd that a
disproportionate amount of effort has been made to exonorate the driver. I'm
more angry about the blatant victim-blaming in this case.


 




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