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Crankshaft end tapers.



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 26th 20, 04:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan S. MacAbre
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper? I recently
had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus' Italian bike.
I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of smaller diameter
than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted correctly. But since
then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken slowly, and the crank
makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time with the pedalling effort
oscillating from left to right. Is it possible that the Ofmega pedals
fitted to it are not fitting the taper correctly? No play can be felt
by hand, and they are still almost impossible to remove without lots of
unpleasant hammering with a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily? I
had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that it
was supposed to fit into. Again, is that because the Ofmega pedals have
a different thread there?
  #2  
Old June 26th 20, 05:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

On Friday, 26 June 2020 11:57:52 UTC-4, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper? I recently
had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus' Italian bike.
I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of smaller diameter
than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted correctly. But since
then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken slowly, and the crank
makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time with the pedalling effort
oscillating from left to right. Is it possible that the Ofmega pedals
fitted to it are not fitting the taper correctly? No play can be felt
by hand, and they are still almost impossible to remove without lots of
unpleasant hammering with a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily? I
had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that it
was supposed to fit into. Again, is that because the Ofmega pedals have
a different thread there?


Yes, there can be different tapers on bottom bracket spindles.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

Cheers
  #3  
Old June 26th 20, 05:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

On Friday, 26 June 2020 12:46:38 UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 11:57:52 UTC-4, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper? I recently
had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus' Italian bike.
I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of smaller diameter
than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted correctly. But since
then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken slowly, and the crank
makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time with the pedalling effort
oscillating from left to right. Is it possible that the Ofmega pedals
fitted to it are not fitting the taper correctly? No play can be felt
by hand, and they are still almost impossible to remove without lots of
unpleasant hammering with a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily? I
had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that it
was supposed to fit into. Again, is that because the Ofmega pedals have
a different thread there?


Yes, there can be different tapers on bottom bracket spindles.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

Cheers


Edit. Add.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html
  #4  
Old June 26th 20, 06:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan S. MacAbre
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 12:46:38 UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, 26 June 2020 11:57:52 UTC-4, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper? I recently
had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus' Italian bike.
I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of smaller diameter
than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted correctly. But since
then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken slowly, and the crank
makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time with the pedalling effort
oscillating from left to right. Is it possible that the Ofmega pedals
fitted to it are not fitting the taper correctly? No play can be felt
by hand, and they are still almost impossible to remove without lots of
unpleasant hammering with a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily? I
had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that it
was supposed to fit into. Again, is that because the Ofmega pedals have
a different thread there?


Yes, there can be different tapers on bottom bracket spindles.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

Cheers


Edit. Add.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbtaper.html


Hm. I still have the old one, so I suppose I ought to get the
micrometer out and compare them. Assuming I can get the pedal off again
without destroying it :-) Thanks.
  #5  
Old June 26th 20, 06:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tosspot[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,563
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

On 26/06/2020 17:57, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper? I
recently had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus'
Italian bike. I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of
smaller diameter than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted
correctly. But since then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken
slowly, and the crank makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time
with the pedalling effort oscillating from left to right. Is it
possible that the Ofmega pedals fitted to it are not fitting the
taper correctly? No play can be felt by hand, and they are still
almost impossible to remove without lots of unpleasant hammering with
a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily? I
had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that
it was supposed to fit into. Again, is that because the Ofmega
pedals have a different thread there?


Welcome to JIS vs ISO. Chuck in the towel and move to JIS. I fought it
for a few years, I didn't win -(
  #6  
Old June 27th 20, 12:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan S. MacAbre
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

Tosspot wrote:
On 26/06/2020 17:57, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper?Â* I
recently had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus'
Italian bike. I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of
smaller diameter than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted
correctly.Â* But since then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken
slowly, and the crank makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time
with the pedalling effort oscillating from left to right.Â* Is it
possible that the Ofmega pedals fitted to it are not fitting the
taper correctly?Â* No play can be felt by hand, and they are still
almost impossible to remove without lots of unpleasant hammering with
a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily?Â* I
Â*had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that
it was supposed to fit into.Â* Again, is that because the Ofmega
pedals have a different thread there?


Welcome to JIS vs ISO.Â* Chuck in the towel and move to JIS.Â* I fought it
for a few years, I didn't win -(


Hm. Well, I am a bit of an old fuddy-duddy. I will now need to find out
what JIS is. Working on old motorbikes, it's even taken me a long time
to get used to metrication. If it wasn't for having to fix the car
every now and then, I would never have had to.
  #7  
Old June 27th 20, 01:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

On Saturday, 27 June 2020 07:49:50 UTC-4, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Tosspot wrote:
On 26/06/2020 17:57, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper?Â* I
recently had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus'
Italian bike. I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of
smaller diameter than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted
correctly.Â* But since then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken
slowly, and the crank makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time
with the pedalling effort oscillating from left to right.Â* Is it
possible that the Ofmega pedals fitted to it are not fitting the
taper correctly?Â* No play can be felt by hand, and they are still
almost impossible to remove without lots of unpleasant hammering with
a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily?Â* I
Â*had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that
it was supposed to fit into.Â* Again, is that because the Ofmega
pedals have a different thread there?


Welcome to JIS vs ISO.Â* Chuck in the towel and move to JIS.Â* I fought it
for a few years, I didn't win -(


Hm. Well, I am a bit of an old fuddy-duddy. I will now need to find out
what JIS is. Working on old motorbikes, it's even taken me a long time
to get used to metrication. If it wasn't for having to fix the car
every now and then, I would never have had to.


Read the two links that I posted after your first post in this thread.

Cheers
  #8  
Old June 27th 20, 01:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Dan S. MacAbre
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 07:49:50 UTC-4, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Tosspot wrote:
On 26/06/2020 17:57, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper?Â* I
recently had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the missus'
Italian bike. I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I think) and of
smaller diameter than most; but I got a Shimano one that fitted
correctly.Â* But since then, the LH pedal bolt has tended to slacken
slowly, and the crank makes an embarrassing creaking noise int time
with the pedalling effort oscillating from left to right.Â* Is it
possible that the Ofmega pedals fitted to it are not fitting the
taper correctly?Â* No play can be felt by hand, and they are still
almost impossible to remove without lots of unpleasant hammering with
a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off easily?Â* I
Â*had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal, but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy thread that
it was supposed to fit into.Â* Again, is that because the Ofmega
pedals have a different thread there?

Welcome to JIS vs ISO.Â* Chuck in the towel and move to JIS.Â* I fought it
for a few years, I didn't win -(


Hm. Well, I am a bit of an old fuddy-duddy. I will now need to find out
what JIS is. Working on old motorbikes, it's even taken me a long time
to get used to metrication. If it wasn't for having to fix the car
every now and then, I would never have had to.


Read the two links that I posted after your first post in this thread.

Cheers


Well, this bit is certainly relevant for me:

"There are no modern bottom brackets that work with old Ofmega/Avocet
cranks."

What we have here is Ofmega, so it looks like I will need to get NOS
parts from somewhere.
  #9  
Old June 27th 20, 02:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

On 6/27/2020 7:08 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, 27 June 2020 07:49:50 UTC-4, Dan S. MacAbre
wrote:
Tosspot wrote:
On 26/06/2020 17:57, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of
taper? I
recently had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on
the missus'
Italian bike. I had to get one a little wider (70mm, I
think) and of
smaller diameter than most; but I got a Shimano one
that fitted
correctly. But since then, the LH pedal bolt has
tended to slacken
slowly, and the crank makes an embarrassing creaking
noise int time
with the pedalling effort oscillating from left to
right. Is it
possible that the Ofmega pedals fitted to it are not
fitting the
taper correctly? No play can be felt by hand, and
they are still
almost impossible to remove without lots of unpleasant
hammering with
a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals
off easily? I
 had a tool that screwed into the side of the pedal,
but instead of
pulling the pedal off, it just pulled out all the alloy
thread that
it was supposed to fit into. Again, is that because
the Ofmega
pedals have a different thread there?

Welcome to JIS vs ISO. Chuck in the towel and move to
JIS. I fought it
for a few years, I didn't win -(

Hm. Well, I am a bit of an old fuddy-duddy. I will now
need to find out
what JIS is. Working on old motorbikes, it's even taken
me a long time
to get used to metrication. If it wasn't for having to
fix the car
every now and then, I would never have had to.


Read the two links that I posted after your first post in
this thread.

Cheers


Well, this bit is certainly relevant for me:

"There are no modern bottom brackets that work with old
Ofmega/Avocet cranks."

What we have here is Ofmega, so it looks like I will need to
get NOS parts from somewhere.


Phil Wood still produces their classic Phil #2 USA made
crank bearing assembly for that application, same as 1971
and as current as this morning:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/WFDJH9.JPG

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #10  
Old June 26th 20, 08:09 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Crankshaft end tapers.

On 6/26/2020 10:57 AM, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Is it possible that there are more than one kind of taper?
I recently had to replace the bottom bracket bearings on the
missus' Italian bike. I had to get one a little wider (70mm,
I think) and of smaller diameter than most; but I got a
Shimano one that fitted correctly. But since then, the LH
pedal bolt has tended to slacken slowly, and the crank makes
an embarrassing creaking noise int time with the pedalling
effort oscillating from left to right. Is it possible that
the Ofmega pedals fitted to it are not fitting the taper
correctly? No play can be felt by hand, and they are still
almost impossible to remove without lots of unpleasant
hammering with a tapered car balljoint splitter.

Speaking of which, is there a tool that can get pedals off
easily? I had a tool that screwed into the side of the
pedal, but instead of pulling the pedal off, it just pulled
out all the alloy thread that it was supposed to fit into.
Again, is that because the Ofmega pedals have a different
thread there?


There are two common sections of the standard crank taper
and they do not fit each other:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/3SPINDLE.JPG

Your Ofmega cranks require the rightmost format. What you
bought is shown center. (also, your original was asymmetric
so now either your chainline is askew or the left crank is
vary far outboard or both)

Your Ofmega crank formerly used the most common extractor,
22x1mm which are cheap and ubiquitous. (the other sizes 23.0
and 23.35mm are obsolete and wouldn't start in your crank
anyway. No one who has those tools would have lent it to
you) Your current format is 'stripped' in that the threads
are missing. Next time seat the tool fully in the crank arm
on clean threads before attempting removal.

Once you acquire the correct spindle, there's no reason not
to install that damaged arm, just note that future removal
may be destructive. If there's a competent shop near you a
TA oversize extractor may be fitted but that may be more
expensive than a replacement arm (many other brands
interchange, Campagnolo, Sugino Mity, SR Royal, original New
Dura Ace #7400, Sugino 75, Miche, Zeus, etc. Not Shimano
current products not Sugino XD not made in china)

People carp and bitch about mouting cranks on dry tapers or
wet but whichever version of heresy you follow, lubricate
your fastener regardless and torque to 35nm.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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