Government Bicycle Program News

On 6/27/2020 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 1:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 9:25:52 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

If you define "recreational cyclist" as a person with a stylish bike as
promoted in some bicycling magazine, with clipless pedals (um... that
you clip into), wearing lycra shorts, riding gloves, a brightly colored
cycling jersey (bonus points if it advertises the brand of bike) then
yes, that person will almost certainly wear a helmet. Come on! Would you
expect the Shriners to parade without their red hats?
https://medinah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-parades.jpg

We just wear all that stuff to ****-off the bearded curmudgeons with their Chihuahua bags riding position one, ringing their bells and calling out cracks in the road. Talk about a Shriner's Parade.

How funny that a sport cyclist in garish skin tight lycra would make fun
of a person riding competently in normal clothing!

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing (whatever normal might mean). I make fun of the officious cycling busybodies. https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way! https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

So what are you objecting to, Jay? Instead of snarking, be specific.
Let's discuss.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 6:54:27 AM UTC-5, Duane wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:00:16 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
No, I wasn't defining "recreational cyclists" as those who wear fancy
cycling gear, although the usually do, I was rather trying to
differentiate between people who ride a bicycle for "fun" and those
who use it as their only means of local transportation.

John B.

I'd agree with that statement. Recreational cyclists ride their bikes
for fun and exercise. They do it because they want to. And most, almost
all, wear bicycle specific clothing to do it and ride newer style bikes..


So when I’m commuting to the office on my pretty new CF Tarmac with my
backpack on top of my bicycle specific kit does that make me a recreational
cyclist?

Most riders I see on the road around here doing any more than a few
kilometre commute wear cycling kits. Maybe it’s different where there are
few cyclists.

Do you ALSO ride your bike for fun, recreation on the weekend or after work? If so then you are a recreational cyclist. Yes you may commute and even go to the grocery store to pick up supplies on the bike, but you are foremost a recreational cyclist. You can be both. But I think the recreational part trumps the utilitarian cyclist part. I've ridden my bike to work, doctor visits, grocery store. But I consider myself a recreational cyclist, not a utilitarian cyclist.

Am Sat, 27 Jun 2020 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT) schrieb jbeattie
:

On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

How funny that a sport cyclist in garish skin tight lycra would make fun
of a person riding competently in normal clothing!

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing
(whatever normal might mean).

Around here, normal clothes are what people usually wear. It depends on
their personal perferences, weather, and on what they are going to do
when they got to their destination.

When I cycle to the nearby bathing lake, I wear something different than
when I drive a few broken roof tiles to the garbage dump and again
something else when I ride to the opera on the utility bike. On sunny
summer days, I see young girls in airy summer dresses driving by on
their bikes. From time to time, a teenager rides here for sports, in a
judo suit, by bicycle. Same with football clothing.

Quite often, people just wear the standard US uniform, jeans + t-shirt,
that is, when shopping or when doing what they do to make a living.
Some even wear a business suit.

I switched to more functional clothing for my ride, as both distance and
speed became above average. But this in no way resembles the outfit
shown below.



I make fun of the officious
cycling busybodies.
https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg
Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way!
https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

So do I. The German term for that outfit is noodle sieve and insane vest
("Nudelsieb und Wahnweste"). The latter one is a pun based on warning
vest == Warnweste, which sound quite similar, especially when it's
pronounced sloppily.



And I'm fully qualified to criticize those other cyclists,
being that I'm a fifth degree Black Belt in Quantum Cycling
Dynamics with over seventeen instructor certifications from
the League of Extraordinary Bicyclists. I have the gold
patch with clusters!

And I am still the Road Master for my bicycling club,
which is filled with incompetents who rely on me for
basically everything.

Oh yes. Judging from how you tried to make fun of one of my old and
worn bikes, which served me well for many years of intense use as a
randonneur, commuter bike and general purpose utility bike, just by
looking at an snapshot photo, I wouldn't like to depend on your help,
thank you very much. Fortunately, I am able to distinguish essential
defects from irrelevant cosmetic details and have done most of the
repairs and modifications on my bikes myself, without a need for help.


At night, they all have
non-functioning lights and rely on my blazing 3W dyno light
to lead the way.

Great. Call me impressed. In Germany, most bicycles which aren't race
bikes or similar nowadays come with LED lights powered by a hub dyno
which delives 3W or more.

The bike you made fun of ("looks like a dumpster find") by looking at a
photo taken in autumn 2007 didn't have a hub generator then, because
head- and taillight where driven by a lead/acid battery, so the bottle
dynamo just served as a somewhat unreliable backup.

But the bike got a hub dynamo during the Cristmas holidays, when I
finally found the time. It even got two of them, because I built two
sets of wheels, one for summer and one for winter.

https://www.mystrobl.de/ws/pic/fahrrad/winterrad/P1050728.jpg is a
picture of that bike from 2007-12-23, with the Continental Top Contact
Winter mounted. The headlamp is an automatic BUMM LED headlamp ("LUMOTEC
IQ Fly", the very first approved LED headlight in Germany at that time.)

That bike got quite some modifications since 1996. Last time I asked,
that lamp shown above and the generator are still doing well.


Just the other day, one of our members
showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in
pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his
handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him.
Pfff. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

An I am astounded by what you wrote in


People _using_ there bikes in everyday life, instead of polishing them
for posing don't care that much about look. Quite to the contrary, some
even make some effort to get that dirty "dumpster look".

Personally, I don't care either way. I avoid parking bicycles out of my
control if possible, so theft or vandalism wasn't a problem, most of the
time. A bicycle is a tool, just like a car or a camera. If a scratch or
dirt is just cosmetics, who cares?

Honest traces of use honor the tool.


--
Thank you for observing all safety precautions

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 10:16:36 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2020 11:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:56:20 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Frank ever asked yourself why you provoke this kind of posts again and again?
From another thread:

'I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.'

Geezz....

What part do you object to? Like it or not, I have a reputation for
competence. Village cops know me. Many village and city residents know
of me. I've been the subject of several articles and interviews in local
media. I've served on quite a few relevant committees, taught classes,
written articles, etc.

Does all that offend you?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Offend is not the right word Frank. The constant out of context bragging about it and bringing up all your fancy 'very good friends' in your silly stories irritates people. That is the reason people bug you. Modesty is a virtue.

Lou

On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 16:39:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/27/2020 2:45 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 27 Jun 2020 09:56:01 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing (whatever
normal might mean). I make fun of the officious cycling busybodies.
https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg
Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way!
https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

Yesterday, I was climbing a small hill in my Subaru, when I came upon
a cyclist wearing some kind of "instructor" t-shirt, climbing up the
same hill. On the right was the usual too narrow bicycle lane. The
cyclist was doing a rather poor job of staying in the narrow bike
lane, while talking on his smartphone. Although I had plenty of room
to pass on his left, I was worried that he would swing into my lane,
force me to cross the center divider, and into possible oncoming
traffic from over the top of the hill, which I couldn't see until I
went over the top. I haven't received any bicycling instruction
recently, but it makes me wonder if such instructors ride safely only
when accompanied by students or photographers.

First: Are you sure the "instructor" designation had anything to do with
bicycles?

No, I'm not certain. He was riding fairly upright, so I could see
that there was some other writing on the T-shirt, but there were
enough wrinkles in his T-shirt to make them unreadable. It could
easily have been a non-bicycle related instructor. Also, I was not in
a good position to decode the exact meaning or affiliation. I was too
busy trying to avoid becoming accident statistic.

Second: I'm sure there are incompetent bicycling instructors, especially
since LAB grossly lowered its instructor qualifications. Last I checked,
a person could pass the beginners' course one day and become an
instructor in another day or two. And I've come across LAB instructors
lobbying in favor of really foolish stuff, like bike lanes in door zones.

Sigh. I had hoped that the title of "instructor" conveyed some manner
of superior competence, or at least superior common sense. Riding
erratically uphill, with one hand on the cell phone and the other on
the handlebars, seems to indicate that something was lacking in both
competence and common sense.

I have a dashboard camera that I should probably install for such
occasions. However, I bought it about 5 years ago, and haven't
bothered to do anything with it.

Cycling Savvy is a much better program. And a significant amount of its
content is available online.

Thanks. I know nothing about cycling schools, instruction, or
education programs.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 11:56:04 AM UTC-5, jbeattie wrote:

Just the other day, one of our members showed up on his $10K carbon fiber racing bike with step in pedals -- wearing all lycra and a garish jersey -- and his handlebars were on backwards! I had to fix that for him. Pfff. I am astounded by these sport cyclists.

-- Jay Beattie.

Handlebars on backwards? Please provide some more details. Did he have the bars on so the ends were pointed toward the front wheel, but still have the tops on top, and the hooks on the bottom? Just turn the bars 180 degrees left to right.

On 6/27/2020 5:03 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 10:16:36 PM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2020 11:06 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 12:56:20 AM UTC+2, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Frank ever asked yourself why you provoke this kind of posts again and again?
From another thread:

'I hadn't noticed that not far behind him was one of our village cops!
I'm sure he saw the whole thing, and I'm sure it enhanced my reputation
for competence.'

Geezz....

What part do you object to? Like it or not, I have a reputation for
competence. Village cops know me. Many village and city residents know
of me. I've been the subject of several articles and interviews in local
media. I've served on quite a few relevant committees, taught classes,
written articles, etc.

Does all that offend you?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Offend is not the right word Frank. The constant out of context bragging about it and bringing up all your fancy 'very good friends' in your silly stories irritates people. That is the reason people bug you. Modesty is a virtue.

Oh good grief. Your understanding of "constant" is faulty.

Give me a dozen or so quotes of what you object to. Once I have a
sample, perhaps I can run similar statements by you for editing in the
future.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:15:40 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2020 1:20 AM, wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:10:34 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 3:54 PM, wrote:

Just to add one more point to the index. In my neighborhood I have noticed a lot of kids and old people riding bikes on the street in front of my house. Window looking at street. In the afternoon. Likely/certainly due to the Covid-19. They are at home and exercising or just moving about. Most, many do have helmets.

I'd be interested in numbers, percentages, etc. Also I'm interested in
your general location. I've traveled a lot, and biked in (so far) 47
states. The only place I remember seeing most cyclists in helmets is
Portland. In my area, I did my own counts for two years running and
found about one third in helmets.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I am in Des Moines, Iowa. Center of the Midwest. I do not have numbers. Other than each afternoon for the past few weeks or so, I have seen 2-3-4-5 or so people and kids riding bicycles on the street and sidewalks in front of my house. I live in a residential neighborhood so not too much traffic on the streets. Most, 51%+, of the people I see riding through my front window, have helmets. Some do not. But I'd estimate more do than don't.. These people for the most part are not devoted serious bicyclists who populate Google bicycle forums. They are nearby residents and kids who are bicycling now due to Covid-19. Their bicycle rides may only be 0.5-1-2 miles long. They are just on their bicycles due to Covid-19 quarantine. I also see some kids on their bicycles who are riding on the sidewalks because they are kids who must live nearby. They don't have helmets. But the kids I see riding with their parents walking behind them do have helmets.

I also ride on the hundreds of miles of paved bicycle trails around my town. Almost all on the trails fit into the recreational cyclist definition. Riding newer, last 30 years, bicycles and wearing cycling shorts and jerseys. And helmets too.

OK, I just returned from a new experience. A guy we like but have only
sporadic contact with phoned this morning and asked if we'd like to take
a walk on a certain MUP. I've mentioned this MUP before; it was a park
roadway until closed for MV traffic. It's about 1.5 miles by 18 feet and
very popular, although it was emptier than normal today. (There's some
chance of rain.)

As we walked along, I did my best to count bicyclists with and without
helmets. There were about 9 with helmets and about 14 without. That's a
higher percentage helmeted than I observed a few years ago, when I got
31% in helmets if I ignored two organized rides where they were
mandatory, and about 33% if I included those rides.

Regarding the lycra-helmet correlation: Roughly half the helmeted
cyclists were on road bikes and wearing lycra; the rest on comfort bikes
or mountain bikes. Only two unhelmeted cyclists were on road bikes and
wearing lycra.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Just to argue with you, for the fun of arguing. Maybe your numbers are influenced by the particular MUP (Multi Use Path?) that you were on and observing. The paved bike trails in my town are mostly connected and encompass hundreds of miles. So a recreational cyclist, wearing lycra, clipless pedals, helmet, newer bike, will ride these trails because they can get a real ride in. Whereas your 1.5 mile long MUP, isn't long enough for a "real" cyclist to even bother with. I can easily walk 1.5 miles, as you did. Why even bother getting the bike out for a 1.5 mile ride. And riding around and around on a 1.5 mile trail in circles is not really something most recreational bicyclists do. It might be that your specific 1.5 mile MUP was setup almost for the exclusive use of not so dedicated cyclists. Kids, old people, newbies. Whereas the hundreds of miles of trails in my area were designed specifically for cyclists to ride miles and miles and miles. I rarely see kids or people new to cycling on the trails. They are tens, hundreds of miles going all over town and between towns. They are not confined little areas where you go to ride around in circles for 15 minutes. So very different cyclists will go to these different venues.

Now to sort of contradict what I just wrote. We do have a city park in my town with about a 1.5 mile road around a lake. And another 1 mile circle attached to the 1.5 mile circle. I do see some serious (lycra, clipless, new bike, helmet) cyclists riding around and around the circles. Presumably training. The road is open to car traffic too so its not a trail. But not too much traffic in the park. So recreational cyclists do ride around in small circles sometimes.

On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:40:38 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2020 12:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 12:03:53 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 1:56 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 9:25:52 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:

If you define "recreational cyclist" as a person with a stylish bike as
promoted in some bicycling magazine, with clipless pedals (um... that
you clip into), wearing lycra shorts, riding gloves, a brightly colored
cycling jersey (bonus points if it advertises the brand of bike) then
yes, that person will almost certainly wear a helmet. Come on! Would you
expect the Shriners to parade without their red hats?
https://medinah.org/wp-content/uploa...rs-parades.jpg

We just wear all that stuff to ****-off the bearded curmudgeons with their Chihuahua bags riding position one, ringing their bells and calling out cracks in the road. Talk about a Shriner's Parade.

How funny that a sport cyclist in garish skin tight lycra would make fun
of a person riding competently in normal clothing!

I don't make fun of people riding in normal clothing (whatever normal might mean). I make fun of the officious cycling busybodies. https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...k-1030x773.jpg Yikes. Instructors! Clear the way! https://cyclingsavvy.org/wp-content/...orange-ave.jpg

So what are you objecting to, Jay? Instead of snarking, be specific.
Let's discuss.

I think those Cycling Savvy instructors need a parade permit -- and a diet plan.

I ride around a lot of cyclists, and yet I have never seen a platoon so intent on "controlling traffic." Apparently, they're not going anywhere.
They're just out to make some bizarre point. First position! Right phalanx to the fore! Double column formation on three! Signal right on my command!
Torpedoes los!

Really, though, the problem with this formation is that it makes it miserable for other cyclists who are going faster than, say, 12mph. You -- meaning me -- have to jump into the fast lane with a bunch of ****ed off cars and get around this band of nitwits. Been there and done that many times, except with 50mph traffic, which is not fun.

Plus, they're all wearing helmets, signalling to the world that cycling is super-dangerous. And they have fluorescent shirts labeled "instructor," which is per se dopey.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/27/2020 5:41 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 at 1:15:40 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/27/2020 1:20 AM, wrote:
On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 6:10:34 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2020 3:54 PM, wrote:

Just to add one more point to the index. In my neighborhood I have noticed a lot of kids and old people riding bikes on the street in front of my house. Window looking at street. In the afternoon. Likely/certainly due to the Covid-19. They are at home and exercising or just moving about. Most, many do have helmets.

I'd be interested in numbers, percentages, etc. Also I'm interested in
your general location. I've traveled a lot, and biked in (so far) 47
states. The only place I remember seeing most cyclists in helmets is
Portland. In my area, I did my own counts for two years running and
found about one third in helmets.

--
- Frank Krygowski

I am in Des Moines, Iowa. Center of the Midwest. I do not have numbers. Other than each afternoon for the past few weeks or so, I have seen 2-3-4-5 or so people and kids riding bicycles on the street and sidewalks in front of my house. I live in a residential neighborhood so not too much traffic on the streets. Most, 51%+, of the people I see riding through my front window, have helmets. Some do not. But I'd estimate more do than don't. These people for the most part are not devoted serious bicyclists who populate Google bicycle forums. They are nearby residents and kids who are bicycling now due to Covid-19. Their bicycle rides may only be 0.5-1-2 miles long. They are just on their bicycles due to Covid-19 quarantine. I also see some kids on their bicycles who are riding on the sidewalks because they are kids who must live nearby. They don't have helmets. But the kids I see riding with their parents walking behind them do have helmets.

I also ride on the hundreds of miles of paved bicycle trails around my town. Almost all on the trails fit into the recreational cyclist definition. Riding newer, last 30 years, bicycles and wearing cycling shorts and jerseys. And helmets too.

OK, I just returned from a new experience. A guy we like but have only
sporadic contact with phoned this morning and asked if we'd like to take
a walk on a certain MUP. I've mentioned this MUP before; it was a park
roadway until closed for MV traffic. It's about 1.5 miles by 18 feet and
very popular, although it was emptier than normal today. (There's some
chance of rain.)

As we walked along, I did my best to count bicyclists with and without
helmets. There were about 9 with helmets and about 14 without. That's a
higher percentage helmeted than I observed a few years ago, when I got
31% in helmets if I ignored two organized rides where they were
mandatory, and about 33% if I included those rides.

Regarding the lycra-helmet correlation: Roughly half the helmeted
cyclists were on road bikes and wearing lycra; the rest on comfort bikes
or mountain bikes. Only two unhelmeted cyclists were on road bikes and
wearing lycra.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Just to argue with you, for the fun of arguing...

Acknowledged! :-)

Maybe your numbers are influenced by the particular MUP (Multi Use Path?) that you were on and observing.

I agree, they almost certainly are. This was a small sample, and I
counted only because we were talking about this. OTOH, that may be why
today's percentage was 39% helmeted, whereas a couple years ago I
counted 31% helmeted.

The paved bike trails in my town are mostly connected and encompass hundreds of miles.

I remember riding one of them. IIRC, we headed west out of town, stopped
at a recreated historical village, then began using some long trail that
headed northwest. I remember stopping to gorge on mulberries from trees
hanging over that trail.

And IIRC, the road heading due west had a "bike path" sidewalk with stop
signs at the many intersecting driveways. Am I remembering right? Is
that still there?

Now to sort of contradict what I just wrote. We do have a city park in my town with about a 1.5 mile road around a lake. And another 1 mile circle attached to the 1.5 mile circle. I do see some serious (lycra, clipless, new bike, helmet) cyclists riding around and around the circles. Presumably training. The road is open to car traffic too so its not a trail. But not too
much traffic in the park. So recreational cyclists do ride around in
small circles sometimes.

I've heard of cyclists training on MUPs being called "pathletes." It's
not a complimentary term.

--
- Frank Krygowski