Splines vs. square tapers.

After not using my muni for a while (I've been using the 29-er and also
had 125s on the muni to use it as a street machine) I put the 150 cranks
back on and went for a ride.

I thought I may as well use it as a muni for once, and rode into the
'Ponderosa', a stretch of land that is mainly left to its own devices,
with some rough trails and steep gradients.

Within ten minutes the handle felt loose and it turned out I'd snapped
the seat base. About to ride it home I discovered the left crank had
also come loose, so, for the first time ever, I had to wheel it home.

On the way I started to wonder if my faithfulold Nimbus was reaching the
end of its days, and what would be its replacement- another Nimbus or
maybe the splined KH or Onza?

I've always been very happy with the Nimbus, and with its non splined
cranks, but there seems to an assumption that, if you're serious about
muni, then a splined hub is the way to go.

However, having done a few thread searches, I wonder if that is true. I
think I saw a reply by Roger Davies where he said he uses square taper
hubs, and that splines are unnecessary if you're not doing big drops.

Also, looking at splined models, the crank length options for muni seem
to be 165-170mm only. As someone who uses 150s and who finds 170s to be
uncomfortable and slow (admittedly I've only had brief goes on them) I
find that a bit restrictive.

Also, the cranks themselves are consideraby more expensive than non
splined ones (by a factor of 4).

One thing I dislike about square tapers is the messing around involved
in changing them i.e. grease, hammering etc; but, from some posts I've
seen, splined ones seem troublesome to remove as well.

I've fixed my Nimbus by fitting the Reeder handle to an old seat, and
the crank looseness was probably cos of the recent switch, having
tightened it up Ihad a long ride and it's fine again.

However, at some point I'll have to get a new muni; whilst the KH looks
nice and it'd be good to have the latest kit, I suspect that I'd get a
Nimbus because I've found it to be reliable and a great muni, I also
have the tools and knowledge of how to maintain it. I also think it
unlikely that I'll be doing high drops.

Here's some questions on splined hubs/cranks.

1. Is there any point to them if you're not going to do long drops
2. Any ideas about what will happen in the future eg will square taper
hubs vanish like cottered cranks did, or, if munis popularity drops,
will splined cranks dissapear
3. Why no 150mm splined cranks
4. Any other thoughts on splined/square taper hubs/cranks


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onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist

"He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
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I would also like to hear from people who've managed to break a Suzue or
any other hardened non-splined hub, in particular the length of use and
the sort of punishment it was subjected to. Thank you.


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hole-in-my-shoe - getting bigger
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Dave- I have 170 profiles and i would never go any shorter. Sure i get
passed up in the flats but the torque on steep uphills and steep rock
faces is priceless!

BTW, there are 150 profiles.

hole-in-my-shoe wrote:
*I would also like to hear from people who've managed to break a Suzue
or any other hardened non-splined hub, in particular the length of use
and the sort of punishment it was subjected to. Thank you. *


Do Suzues count as hardened hubs? I've wrecked my share. I went through
a hub (suzue) and a hand full of cranks on my United/monty trials. Back
when i was using the monty i wasnt good at rolling out of drops so
anything bigger than a 3 foot drop would usually mess something up.

I also had a shwinn muni that i cracked the suzue hub on while going
down some rocks.


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mango - unity - as 1 stand together
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mango wrote:
*Dave- I have 170 profiles and i would never go any shorter. Sure i
get passed up in the flats but the torque on steep uphills and steep
rock faces is priceless!
*

Is that 170s on a 26" or 24" or 24" with 3" tyre?

I currently ride a 24x3 and used 150s because I didn't just use it for
muni.

Now I've got into 29-er with 5" cranks and I'm thinking that I could
use the 24x3 just for muni. On todays ride I started thinking maybe I
should give 170s a go so I can tackle steeper stuff.


--
onewheeldave - Semi Skilled Unicyclist

"He's also been known to indulge in a spot of flame juggling - but it's
the Muni that really fires him up."

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Sorry i wasnt more specific.

170 cranks on 24X3 muni. I mostly use it for muni; trials sometimes.


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mango - unity - as 1 stand together
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onewheeldave wrote:
*1. Is there any point to them if you're not going to do long drops
2. Any ideas about what will happen in the future eg will square taper
hubs vanish like cottered cranks did, or, if munis popularity drops,
will splined cranks dissapear
3. Why no 150mm splined cranks
4. Any other thoughts on splined/square taper hubs/cranks *

- There is a point to having splines even if you don't do large drops.
The cranks and axle are more durable. They allow you to reposition the
cranks easily, to change the most worn spots on the tire, prolonging
the active life of your tire.
- Square taper hubs may improve, and the fastening mechanism has
recently been improved on the Unicycle.com ChroMoly hub. I doubt that
MUni popularity will drop in a hurry.
- Profile makes many different splined crank sizes, ranging from 145mm
to 170mm (and bigger) in 5mm increments. You can get 140mm or 170mm KH
cranks, and there is a possibility of more sizes to choose from in the
future. Qu-ax makes even shorter splined cranks, I'm not sure of the
details, maybe 125mm.
- For a MUni or Trials uni, I think you should go for splined cranks
and hub if you can afford it. They are much stronger and more
convenient than square taper hubs and cranks. I do not regret getting
145mm and 170mm Profiles, it's so much better riding with cranks that
aren't bent or loose. Square taper hubs have always given me problems,
although I've never owned a hardened one yet.


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hole-in-my-shoe wrote:
*I would also like to hear from people who've managed to break a Suzue
or any other hardened non-splined hub, in particular the length of use
and the sort of punishment it was subjected to. Thank you. *


I have a twisted Suzue hub at home. And alot of bent cranks in the trash
to go with it.

I was using it for trials, doing 3-4 foot drops. My form wasnt great but
I seemed to bend cranks even if I was slightly off. The hub is twisted 4
or 5 degrees. I used it for 8 months before I invested in profiles.


--
Checkernuts - Me Fail English? That's Unpossible

No one said it was gonna be easy and I'm not afraid to try, with the
odds stacked up against me I will have to fight, One Life One Wheel got
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There are two main reasons for going with splined cranks: strength and
reliability.

Square tapered cranks on a muni are unreliable. They will eventually
come loose on you during a muni ride. Murphy's Law makes sure that the
crank comes loose when it is most inconvenient. Even if you carry a
crank tool and a 14 mm socket, you can't always fix it completely and
get it tight enough while on the trail. You need to take it home where
you can grease the taper and press the crank on again. When I was using
a square tapered hub on my muni (a Pashley) I always brought crank tools
with me and a spare crank nut. However, I still ended up walking back
to the car more than once because the crank came loose and I couldn't
get it tight enough on the trail. The reliability alone makes splined
cranks worth it for me. I hate wasting a ride because of a stupid
mechanical failure.

The other advantage is strength. Splined hubs and splined cranks are
stronger. You're not likely to break them.

Old school muni was done with square tapered hubs and cranks. Broken
hubs and broken cranks were common for the people doing aggressive
riding. Aggressive riding is more than just doing big drops, it's
putting maximum effort in on the climbs, hitting the small drops on the
trail, plowing over roots, and generally just riding hard. At what
point does XC riding cross over into aggressive riding? I don't know.
I guess that point is when your equipment starts breaking or failing.
That point is going to be different for different people with different
riding styles.

Even if you are not riding aggressively enough to need splined cranks
for the strength aspect, consider them for the reliability aspect. How
much is it worth to you not to have a ride wasted by a loose crank?

Right now Profile has the best crank length selection for splined
cranks. Profile has 145, 150, 160, 165, 170, 175, 177, and more.
Unfortunately Profile is the most expensive option. I remain hopeful
that KH will eventually offer more crank sizes for the KH hub. There is
also the option of getting some cranks custom modified to shorten them.
A couple people have gone the custom route to get specific sizes like
127 mm Profile cranks.

The maintenance requirements for splined cranks are just different than
for square tapered cranks. Splined cranks go together differently and
come apart differently. You just have to learn the new system. It's
just different. I tend to make my maintenance issues more involved than
normal people, but I want to find out what makes my equipment tick and
I'm willing to do things like take my Profile hub apart to Loctite the
keyway if it's not feeling well.

The cost of splined hubs and cranks is coming down. Eventually we'll
have more crank length choices for splined setups. The cost difference
between the splined and square tapered setups will become less of an
issue. Eventually the splined setup will become the way to go even for
an entry level muni.


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john_childs wrote:
*There are two main reasons for going with splined cranks: strength
and reliability.*

The Gospel According to St. John: 12:46


--
tomblackwood - Registered Nurtz

Tailgate at your own risk.....

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This sort of question always leaves me amazed and feeling a little
inadequate. Here's me riding further on a unicycle than most people
ride on bicycles, ploughing through mud, grunting up hills and all that.
Unicycling has put me in hospital twice in a year, and I just can't
imagine bending a crank or damaging a hub.

Yes, I've seen someone leap down a flight of stairs on a uni, and
someone jump off a wall. I just don't understand why they do it on a
unicycle.

Be that as it may, and each to his own, I don't think square taper hubs
should be written off just because splined hubs are stronger. We live
in a society in which we are assumed to need overspecification all the
time - whether it's the 4.2 litre 4x4 for the school run, or the
titanium components saving fractions of a gramme on a bicycle belonging
to someone who weighs 20 pounds more than his ideal weight. You only
need the higher specification when you have exceeded the limits of the
lower specification.

I wonder how many people rely on the 'bullet proof' quality of their
equipment rather than on finesse, balance and timing. A mate of mine at
the fencing club says, "Buy the kit, get the hit." He has 12 swords of
different specifications. I can't remember when he last beat me
though.

Tapered hubs are simple. It's easy to swap the cranks. On those rare
occasions when they work loose (anything threaded can work losse,
especially when it has just been fitted) it is easy to tighten them.
What's all this stuff with grease and hammers? Just do the job
carefully, that's all it takes.

Tchah! Young people of today... blah blah mutter mutter.


--
Mikefule - Roland Hope School of Unicycling

Sometimes I ride like a demon, sometimes like a lemon. It's an L of a
difference.
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