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  #81  
Old August 3rd 13, 12:23 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
John Dean[_2_]
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Posts: 5
Default Routemasters (again)


"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
"John Dean" wrote in message
...
"Truebrit" wrote in message
...


Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?

Do you not have jaywalking laws?


Generally speaking, no.
https://www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians...e-road-7-to-17


That's general advice rather than what's legal and what isn't.


Sure. And it indicates what the Government thinks it important for
pedestrians to know.

--
John Dean

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  #82  
Old August 3rd 13, 12:35 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
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Posts: 2,958
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 17:16:18 +0100, "John Dean"
wrote:


"Truebrit" wrote in message
...
NY" wrote in message
Turning left/right (delete as applicable) is probably a good one. What
do
pedestrian lights show during this time? Green/walk? It needs
pedestrians
to be aware that cars will turn, even if they (cars) *should* give way
to
them.

"Thumper" wrote:
When the pedestrian green man goes out there is about 20-30 seconds
before
the traffic lights start to change from red to green. So no excuse for a
pedestrian to still be crossing.

"Bertie Wooster" wrote:
Is there any legal requirement for pedestrians to wait while the red
symbol is showing? Or do pedestrians have an unrestricted right to
cross the highway (other than motorways and other restricted use
highways)?

Do you not have jaywalking laws?


Generally speaking, no.
https://www.gov.uk/rules-pedestrians...e-road-7-to-17


Interesting...

Rule 18
=====Quote=====
You MUST NOT loiter on any type of crossing.
Laws ZPPPCRGD reg 19 & RTRA sect 25(5)
=====/Quote=====

I frequently come across criminals in their cars loitering on
pedestrian crossings, especially in traffic queues. Perhaps this is
something that should be decriminalised so that local authorities can
enforce this rule with pedestrian crossing cameras and fixed penalty
notices going to the registered keeper.
  #84  
Old August 3rd 13, 09:06 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Adrian
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Posts: 2,630
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 23:41:43 +0100, JNugent wrote:

The signals displayed by a traffic light mean stop, stop, stop, and
give way.
There is no Go, as even a green only allows you to proceed if the way
is clear.


Can you give the Highway Code reference (page number, etc) for that,
please?


Well it must be against some law to run someone over deliberately.


I was referring to Lee LJ's claim that there are three traffic light
phases ("stop / stop / stop / give way" as he put it).


I count four there, tbh.

And he's right.

Red - Stop.
Amber - Stop.
Red & Amber - Stop.
Green - Proceed if the way is clear.

As for reference, is this authoritative enough...?
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum...ssets/@dg/@en/
documents/digitalasset/dg_070561.pdf
  #85  
Old August 3rd 13, 09:10 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Adrian
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Posts: 2,630
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 22:43:50 +0100, NY wrote:

It was scary to watch the 5th (last) episode of Route Masters (about
London's roads) on BBC1 a couple of weeks ago and see how cyclists seem
to think that the road laws should treat them differently from
engine-powered vehicles.


Of course they shouldn't. Everybody should stick to the HC.

Cyclists were weaving in and out of other
traffic, overtaking first one one side then on the other, right in front
of the eyes of police officers


Umm, yes, and?
Care to tell us which HC rules that's inherently breaking?

and only the worst offenders were even
mentioned, never mind stopped, instead of staying in the bus/bike lane


Neither cyclists nor buses _have_ to stay in the bus/bike lane. The
difference is that other motor vehicles can't use it.
  #86  
Old August 3rd 13, 09:17 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
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Posts: 11,574
Default Routemasters (again)

On 03/08/2013 09:06, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 23:41:43 +0100, JNugent wrote:

The signals displayed by a traffic light mean stop, stop, stop, and
give way.
There is no Go, as even a green only allows you to proceed if the way
is clear.


Can you give the Highway Code reference (page number, etc) for that,
please?


Well it must be against some law to run someone over deliberately.


I was referring to Lee LJ's claim that there are three traffic light
phases ("stop / stop / stop / give way" as he put it).


I count four there, tbh.

And he's right.

Red - Stop.
Amber - Stop.
Red & Amber - Stop.
Green - Proceed if the way is clear.

As for reference, is this authoritative enough...?
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum...ssets/@dg/@en/
documents/digitalasset/dg_070561.pdf


Absolutely.

Thank you.

It confirms that green means "go" and not "give way".
  #87  
Old August 3rd 13, 09:29 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Peter Keller[_3_]
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Posts: 8,736
Default Routemasters (again)

On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 22:05:26 +0100, Judith wrote:

On Fri, 2 Aug 2013 17:12:02 +0100, "NY" wrote:

snip


Utterly bewildering that a tiny minority of cyclists think that they
have priority over everyone else on the road, and give the vast majority
a bad name.



Spot on

Porky Chapman, Anchor Lee, Tom Crispin, Justipoo's, Numb Nuts Mason
.............

The list goes on, and on, and .........


And who else?
  #88  
Old August 3rd 13, 09:38 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Adrian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,630
Default Routemasters (again)

On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:17:20 +0100, JNugent wrote:

The signals displayed by a traffic light mean stop, stop, stop, and
give way.
There is no Go, as even a green only allows you to proceed if the
way is clear.


Can you give the Highway Code reference (page number, etc) for that,
please?


Well it must be against some law to run someone over deliberately.


I was referring to Lee LJ's claim that there are three traffic light
phases ("stop / stop / stop / give way" as he put it).


I count four there, tbh.

And he's right.

Red - Stop.
Amber - Stop.
Red & Amber - Stop.
Green - Proceed if the way is clear.

As for reference, is this authoritative enough...?
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum...talassets/@dg/

@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070561.pdf

Absolutely.

Thank you.

It confirms that green means "go" and not "give way".


Did you bother to read the wording?

"GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear.
Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to
pedestrians who are crossing"

"Give Way" is a far better simplification of that than a simple "Go".
  #89  
Old August 3rd 13, 09:40 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
Norman Wells[_11_]
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Posts: 180
Default Routemasters (again)

JNugent wrote:
On 03/08/2013 09:06, Adrian wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 23:41:43 +0100, JNugent wrote:

The signals displayed by a traffic light mean stop, stop, stop,
and give way.
There is no Go, as even a green only allows you to proceed if
the way is clear.


Can you give the Highway Code reference (page number, etc) for
that, please?


Well it must be against some law to run someone over deliberately.


I was referring to Lee LJ's claim that there are three traffic light
phases ("stop / stop / stop / give way" as he put it).


I count four there, tbh.

And he's right.

Red - Stop.
Amber - Stop.
Red & Amber - Stop.
Green - Proceed if the way is clear.

As for reference, is this authoritative enough...?
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum...ssets/@dg/@en/
documents/digitalasset/dg_070561.pdf


Absolutely.

Thank you.

It confirms that green means "go" and not "give way".


Only if you're deficient in English.

If the way is not clear, you are not permitted to proceed. You have to
give way.

Highway Code Rule 176:

"You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is
showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is
room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a
position to turn right".

  #90  
Old August 3rd 13, 10:12 AM posted to uk.media.tv.misc,uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default Routemasters (again)

On 03/08/2013 09:38, Adrian wrote:
On Sat, 03 Aug 2013 09:17:20 +0100, JNugent wrote:

The signals displayed by a traffic light mean stop, stop, stop, and
give way.
There is no Go, as even a green only allows you to proceed if the
way is clear.


Can you give the Highway Code reference (page number, etc) for that,
please?


Well it must be against some law to run someone over deliberately.


I was referring to Lee LJ's claim that there are three traffic light
phases ("stop / stop / stop / give way" as he put it).


I count four there, tbh.

And he's right.

Red - Stop.
Amber - Stop.
Red & Amber - Stop.
Green - Proceed if the way is clear.

As for reference, is this authoritative enough...?
http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum...talassets/@dg/

@en/documents/digitalasset/dg_070561.pdf

Absolutely.

Thank you.

It confirms that green means "go" and not "give way".


Did you bother to read the wording?

"GREEN means you may go on if the way is clear.


I did read it and there is no problem.

No mention of "give way". It says "go". That proviso ("...if the way is
clear...") applies everywhere at all times on the highway network and is
certainly not particular or peculiar to traffic light junctions. All
traffic movements are subject to the rule about not running into someone
if it can be avoided, so the rest of it is redundant.

Take special care if you intend to turn left or right and give way to
pedestrians who are crossing"


"Give Way" is a far better simplification of that than a simple "Go".

No.

"Give Way" is the instruction given at priority junctions (not traffic
lights) to those who must cede priority to another traffic flow (the one
which has permanent or semi-permanent priority).

A green light does not mean "give way" (ie, "cede priority to the
traffic flow which has priority"). It really doesn't, for the most
obvious of reasons.

All Lee was doing was trying to "prove" that a cyclist breaking the law
at a set of lights has priority over everyone else and that it's someone
else's fault if he gets run over.
 




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