Cyclists being nicked in London

Interesting, the tone of the ads at the bottom of that page. "How to get
your points revoked, how to speed and get off scott free" type of thing.

--
John Clayton
www.calder-clarion.co.uk




This ped got banned from driving, even though he wasn't even on the road:

http://tinyurl.com/2hfds

(links to:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ixportal.html)

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 18:01:46 +0100, Matt B
wrote:

wrote:

Except that licence endorsement is a punishment which is enabled by
legislation, and that no such legislation (as far as I am aware) for
cycling offences exists.

Cyclists are subject to certain road traffic laws such as those to do
with traffic lights, riding on the pavement and dangerous cycling which
I believe can attract driving licence endorsements.

"...when comitted while driving a motor vehicle..." was the right
answer.

David Martin wrote:
Matt B wrote:
wafflycat wrote:
"Phil Manning" wrote in message
ups.com...
Why are you unaware of this, as a road user whether driving or cycling
I think you will find that you are not immune to having your license
for a car endorsed.
If I commit a *motoring* offence I can have my driving licence endorsed.
Please explain why you think that if, as a cyclist, I commit a *cycling*
offence, it would mean my *driving* licence will be endorsed.
You can have your driving licence endorsed if you commit certain road
traffic offences whether you be a motorist or a cyclist at the time you
commit the offence.

such as?
I can't think of any. Is my disbelief due to lack of evidence any more
credible than your belief despite lack of evidence?

Found it! But, unfortunately it was in the Daily Mail[1], so it could
well be incorrect. I may have to eat my words :-(

"Cyclists can already be hit with fixed penalty notices, fines of
between £500 and £2,500 or have their driving licence endorsed if they
are found guilty of dangerous riding, ignore red lights or ride on the
pavement."

[1]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

--
Matt B

"Simon Brooke" wrote in message
...
in message ,
') wrote:

On 14 Sep 2006 08:41:47 -0700, "Phil Manning"
wrote:

Why are you unaware of this, as a road user whether driving or cycling
I think you will find that you are not immune to having your license
for a car endorsed.

How would you envision a cyclist who does not posses a driving licence
having this non-existent licence endorsed?

Actually, an acquaintance of mine who was done for driving without a
licence (he'd never had one) had his non-existent licence endorsed, so
that when he ultimately did pass his test and get a licence it already had
six points on it. However, this has nothing to do with cycling offences.


Six points is enough for a disqualification within 2 years of passing the
test. Wonder how that would work if he was ever to pass one.

DVLA will create a driver record for any non licence holder who is convicted
and given a sentence which would affect their driving licence. The usual
example is underage persons caught driving motor vehicles. Often they are
disqualified from driving until well after their 17th birthday.

Matt B wrote:
Found it! But, unfortunately it was in the Daily Mail[1], so it could
well be incorrect. I may have to eat my words :-(

Probably incorrect. I'd take a look at the road traffic act 1988 as I
think that contains some of the relevant legislation.

"Cyclists can already be hit with fixed penalty notices, fines of
between £500 and £2,500 or have their driving licence endorsed if they
are found guilty of dangerous riding, ignore red lights or ride on the
pavement."

[1]
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

...d

"Matt B" wrote in message
...
wafflycat wrote:

"Phil Manning" wrote in message
ups.com...
Cycling through traffic lights while on red and cycling on pavements
etc. Won't be long before no bell and no lights......well you can be
done for no lights already and then the offence goes on your driving
licence if you have one, three points perhaps?

Why would you think that being found guilty of a *cycling* offence can
affect your *driving* licence?

If it can be affected by offences not connected with the licence holder's
use of the road why not for an offence which /is/ connected with the
holder's use of the road?

This is interesting in a pedantic legalese sort of way.

In section 36 of the Road traffic Act 1988 it says (and this covers red
traffic lights)

quote

36.-(1) Where a traffic sign, being a sign-

(a) of the prescribed size, colour and type, or

(b) of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the
provisions in that behalf of the [1984 c. 27.] Road Traffic Regulation Act
1984,

has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a
vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty
of an offence.

/quote

Is a person "propelling a vehicle" a cyclist? Why else would the word
propelling be used?

The RTA goes on to define what it means by:

"motor vehicle" means, snip technicality a mechanically propelled vehicle
intended or adapted for use on roads

and

"cycle" means a bicycle, a tricycle, or a cycle having four or more wheels,
not being in any case a motor vehicle

but it doesn't define the term "vehicle" on its own, as quoted in sec.36.

I'll see what sort of answer I can get on this from a road policing forum.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006, Duncan Gray wrote:

Is a person "propelling a vehicle" a cyclist? Why else would the word
propelling be used?

I think it is. The gap in your logic is that while a cyclist going
through a red light is clearly committing an offence, I don't think
you can show from the RTA that a cyclist committing that offence can
receive points on their driving licence.

You might find that within the Road Traffic Offenders Act (or whatever
it's called, something like that, also 1988), but from what I recall
about looking at that, it's not even clear in there whether the points
listed can be applied to cyclists. (It _is_ clear that teh
cycling-specific offences do not include points as a penalty, but
that's something different.)

I think there's other legislation that describes the conditions in
which points are applied, but I don't know what it is.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

"mb" wrote in message
...
Zog The Undeniable wrote:

Phil Manning wrote:

the offence goes on your driving
licence if you have one, three points perhaps?

That's an old urban myth which should have been taken out and shot
years ago.


It's not though, is it? I heard about plans for this ages ago.

Perhaps a few people in this thread are just eager to brand someone a
troll for saying so?

--
Mike

All of the yes it is, no it isn't, oh yes it is....ohhhh no it isn't is
pointless unless supported by some tangible evidence. Hearsay is not
enough.

To the best of my knowledge it isn't possible to be given points on one's
driving licence for non motoring offences but having spent a few minutes
googling, I found much to my surprise, that magistrates have the powers to
impose driving bans on offenders for non motoring offences. Have a look at
the tail end of the web page;
http://www.radar-detectors.co.uk/new..._slow_down.asp
it still seems however that the offences are linked to motor vehicles.

wrote:

How would you envision a cyclist who does not posses a driving licence
having this non-existent licence endorsed?

They issue one. I know a 14 year old (now 42) who had one issued for
the express purpose of being banned (****ed in a stolen car). His
acquaintances had ladled him into the back of it already blind-drunk,
then scarpered pronto when caught. Being unconscious, immobile and
obviously guilty of everything from barratry to arson in a naval
dockyard, he carried the can for the lot.

On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 14:47:37 -0500, "mb"
wrote:

Zog The Undeniable wrote:

Phil Manning wrote:

the offence goes on your driving
licence if you have one, three points perhaps?

That's an old urban myth which should have been taken out and shot
years ago.


It's not though, is it? I heard about plans for this ages ago.

Perhaps a few people in this thread are just eager to brand someone a
troll for saying so?

Matt B was branded - correctly - a troll by many people many threads
ago; to the point that he was given the moniker "Troll B", for which
you can search if you like.

Mea culpa, I forgot; but was reminded in this thread.