Armstrong vs Ullrich / racing weight

In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by 2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

Steve Kenney

Steve Kenney wrote:

In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by 2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

Steve Kenney

Maybe the reference was to the start of his 2001 Sausage Boy season?

letour.fr

US POSTAL - BERRY FLOOR
1 - ARMSTRONG Lance (Etats-Unis)
Born in 18/09/1971
Height : 1.77 m
Weight : 75.0 kg

TEAM BIANCHI
131 - ULLRICH Jan (Allemagne)
Born in 02/12/1973
Height : 1.83 m
Weight : 73.0 kg

"Steve Kenney" wrote in message
...
In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must
have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by
2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

I don't think the rider's "official" weights from the TdF website can be
trusted.

FWIW, Armstrong was quoted just before the Tour began as saying that he was
struggling to get down to his fighting weight of previous years of "about 74
kg". More recently, he was quoted as saying that he weighed 66.5 kg
immediately after the TT, vs. "probably" 72-73 kg that morning. Put it all
together, and my guess is that he normally weighs significantly more than 74
kg, diets down to that weight by the start of the race, then loses another
1-1.5 kg during the race.

Armstrong's exact weight is relevant in attempting to estimate his
power/weight based on reported SRM data and/or climbing performance...which
is why I've been taking note.

Andy Coggan

Steve Kenney wrote:
In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by 2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

That was Paul Sherwen, and it's another example of him
talking out his ass. Same thing with his comment about
Jan's wheels being too stiff.

Todd Kuzma

Andy Coggan wrote:

More recently, he was quoted as saying that he
weighed 66.5 kg immediately after the TT, vs. "probably" 72-73 kg that
morning.

So, a difference of at least 5.5 kg. The evaporation enthalpy (not sure, if
this is the correct term) of water is a bit over 40 KJ/mol. So, to evaporte
5.5 kg of water in 1 hour, one would need a power of

5500 g/(18 g/mol) * 40000 J/mol / 3600 s = 3400 W

Or in other words, say Armstrong's body is working at 50% efficiency, it
would be enough to cool a power output of 3400 W (when the only heat loss
is by sweating, and the air temperature is about body temperature, and
quite a few more ands ...).

Of course, some sweat will just drip down, and not evaporate. And warm up
times etc. But those numbers look way off.

Dieter

"Andy Coggan" wrote in message
thlink.net...
"Steve Kenney" wrote in message
...
In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that
Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must
have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by
2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

I don't think the rider's "official" weights from the TdF website can be
trusted.

FWIW, Armstrong was quoted just before the Tour began as saying that he
was
struggling to get down to his fighting weight of previous years of "about
74
kg". More recently, he was quoted as saying that he weighed 66.5 kg
immediately after the TT, vs. "probably" 72-73 kg that morning. Put it all
together, and my guess is that he normally weighs significantly more than
74
kg, diets down to that weight by the start of the race, then loses another
1-1.5 kg during the race.

Armstrong's exact weight is relevant in attempting to estimate his
power/weight based on reported SRM data and/or climbing
performance...which
is why I've been taking note.

Andy Coggan


I know that the rider's own websites have their "marketing" weights but does
not the Tour do health checks including weigh ins?

Steve Kenney wrote:

In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must
have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by
2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

jan being around 30lbs heavier seems about right. he is 2" taller than lance
(assuming available stats are correct) and he looks a lot heavier.

"Dieter Buerssner" wrote in message
. t-online.de...
Andy Coggan wrote:

More recently, he was quoted as saying that he
weighed 66.5 kg immediately after the TT, vs. "probably" 72-73 kg that
morning.

So, a difference of at least 5.5 kg. The evaporation enthalpy (not sure,
if
this is the correct term) of water is a bit over 40 KJ/mol. So, to
evaporte
5.5 kg of water in 1 hour, one would need a power of

5500 g/(18 g/mol) * 40000 J/mol / 3600 s = 3400 W

Or in other words, say Armstrong's body is working at 50% efficiency, it
would be enough to cool a power output of 3400 W (when the only heat loss
is by sweating, and the air temperature is about body temperature, and
quite a few more ands ...).

Of course, some sweat will just drip down, and not evaporate. And warm up
times etc. But those numbers look way off.

They are, because everyone has assumed Armstrong knew what he weighed before
and after the TT. Reading his comments, though, it appears to me that he
weighed himself only afterwards, and was guessing at his morning weight. My
guess is that his state of dehydration was arrived at over a far longer
period than the just the 1 hour of the TT...most likely over days. (IOW, he
was much lighter than 72-73 kg on the morning of the TT.)

Andy Coggan

I have to say, the people on this newsgroup are extremely harsh on the
announcers. It seems to me there was a precident with Ulrich having
problems with "similar" stiff wheels during a decent ('89). Yes I know
they weren't the same wheels blah balh blah, but the point is that there
was a precedent, and thus reason to mention it. Hardly talking out of
his ass. He is COMMENTATING. Making interesting commentary on a bike
race when not much is going on is a fairly difficult job, I would
assume, and I think they (Phil and Paul) both do an excellent job, imho.
Play by play of a decent would get pretty old pretty fast...

He's rolling, and peddeling, and turning, and not pedeling, and rolling
still, oohhh and now he's peddaling, and still still always rolling! Oh
and now he's turning again. ohhh very exciting! And now he's going straight!

As for the weight, I recall hearing (last year/year before) that Lance
was a good deal lighter than Ulrich (maybe 20lbs? can't remember). Jan
looks much bigger than Lance, and is taller. It is hard to imagine that
he is only 4.4 lbs heavier. I would guess at least 15, perhaps 20lbs
difference. Could be more...

Todd Kuzma wrote:

Steve Kenney wrote:

In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that
Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I
must have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan
by 2kg
or 4.4 pounds.


That was Paul Sherwen, and it's another example of him talking out his
ass. Same thing with his comment about Jan's wheels being too stiff.

Todd Kuzma

Todd Kuzma wrote:

Steve Kenney wrote:
In the last stage climb I thought I heard Phil Ligget comment that Ullrich
has a climbing disadvantage carrying more weight than Armstrong. I must have
heard this wrong, as I think I heard 33 pounds??? This can't be right.
According to the rider stat's on the TDF website Lance outweighs Jan by 2kg
or 4.4 pounds.

That was Paul Sherwen, and it's another example of him
talking out his ass. Same thing with his comment about
Jan's wheels being too stiff.


Yeah. Just like the ludicrous downhill speeds he sometimes states. He seems to have tamed that exaggeration
a bit in this years tour. Then again, I've been trained to tune him out when he makes a "technical" claim.