So you admit HIKERS kill the wildlife!!!!

On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:29:31 -0700, "TJ" wrote:

Path: newssvr29.news.prodigy.net!newsdbm05.news.prodigy. net!newsdst01.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.com!newscon 04.news.prodigy.net!prodigy.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!b order1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!loc al01.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.bresnan.com!news.b resnan.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2007 18:28:29 -0600
From: "TJ"
Newsgroups: alt.mountain-bike,rec.bicycles.soc,rec.backcountry,ca.environme nt,sci.environment
References: 7h2vh.192$Xf4.33@trndny09
Subject: So you admit HIKERS kill the wildlife!!!!
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:29:31 -0700
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
Message-ID:
Lines: 103
NNTP-Posting-Host: 72.174.3.57
X-Trace: sv3-TXBtsSzv5nf39HyQbkoZDwJbmdvZhxWfS3PD+WH5U113dYQjRC 8Yw1zCiCmb9zQhJYz2JQxHWbBylY/!k6Mj9KQhyFwU7Q/JQ+s/hkn5qJtuHRFDJ4oxJG/NVMDPE6vo2vef12iETAeEea9uHwYSccTFNZdL!aA1hS9dfTA==
X-Complaints-To:
X-DMCA-Complaints-To:
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.32
Xref: prodigy.net alt.mountain-bike:518090 rec.bicycles.soc:173114 rec.backcountry:455582 ca.environment:54235 sci.environment:601974



--
No Signature. Read on.
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 28 Jan 2007 14:18:43 GMT, "JP" wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007 11:49:55 -0800, cc wrote:

MattB wrote:
cc wrote:
GeeDubb wrote:


"MattB" wrote in message
...

Wow. Scary!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16817149/

Glad he got away alive.

Matt

"After the attack, game wardens closed the park about 320 miles
north
of San Francisco and released hounds to track the lion. They later
shot and killed a pair of lions found near the trail where the
attack
happened.

The carcasses were flown to a state forensics lab to determine if
either animal mauled the man"


That is absolutely ridiculous. They should be prosecuted. It's
obviously revenge, given the odds of actually finding the same lion.
Last time I checked, mountain lions were predators in "nature". . .
which a park should represent . . . sheesh.

Maybe. I'd think with dogs tracking them there is more likelihood of
getting the right one(s) would at least be better than just shooting
the
first ones they could get.
I also see your point about nature, but like it or not humans have
pretty much removed themselves from the food chain. I see flaws with
doing this in terms of how things "should" play out, but if it was me,
my friends or my family involved, I'm less concerned with how the food
chain was designed to work.

Even in the case where we are encroaching on their habitat with our
residences, it is debatable whether we should engage in the "search and
destroy" method of elimination of "rogue" wild animals. It is a much
more compelling case, however, than doing the same thing to animals that
behave as animals when we are supposedly visiting their habitat. The
animal kingdom is dangerous. Kill or be killed. The only way to
eliminate that danger is to eliminate the animals. Is that what we
should do?

cc

No. Close the park permanently to humans.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker. A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it. There
are examples in zoological museums.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Can you please give me an address where I may view the specimens you claim
are in zoological museums. I do not believe you have the credentials to
make such claims.

You don't need "credentials" to see the obvious. The tags on the
snakes say "killed by a mountain biker". DUH!

Have the specimens been peer reviewed, and judged by scientific method to
have been "ran over" as you americans say.

Yes.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:29:31 -0700, "TJ" wrote:


Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker. A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it. There
are examples in zoological museums.
===
Can you please give me an address where I may view the specimens you claim
are in zoological museums. I do not believe you have the credentials to
make such claims.

You don't need "credentials" to see the obvious. The tags on the
snakes say "killed by a mountain biker". DUH!

Have the specimens been peer reviewed, and judged by scientific method to
have been "ran over" as you americans say.

Yes.
Who did the review or examination? Where? When? Where are the actual
documents on results?
Are you going to answer his DIRECT question? He asked you for a physical
ADDRESS to view these alleged specimens.


As have I:
**********
"Thats a laugh! You say they exist therefore it is on you to provide the
PROOF. Your statement "They must be pretty common" is an assumption based on
your OPINION. I've been riding for years and haven't come across an animal
that shows signs it was killed by a cyclist. It is rare to find a dead
animal along the trail killed by any means. You can either provide the
scientific and conclusive evidence from this biologist (a name, and facility
association as well) or you are claiming something you can not prove.
"Because you say so" is not evidence. If you were HONEST, you would have NO
DIFFICULTY providing this proof.

This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.
STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are examples
in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...? Which
museums...? If there are examples, then it should be easy for you to
supply the names.

If you were smart (or cared), you would already know that information.

Sorry - my "Kreskin Skills" are limited when it comes to devining
information from morons. YOU say it is there. If you honestly thought your
statements were true, you would gladly offer real information to support
them instead of trying to sidetrack and misdirect inquiries.So.... Either
provide proof of your statements or, by not doing so, provide the proof you
are lying
That should be easy to grasp by someone with a PhD... Even if it is on fast
food preperation. "
***********************
So which is it? Definate proof with names, addresses, specimen names and
location / case / reference / number. Something TANGIBLE that can be
verified.
This should be EASY if it is actual.

Either provide real and verifiable evidence to support your statements
concerning these "animals" or, by not doing so, acknowledge you are a liar.


===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:25:38 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:29:31 -0700, "TJ" wrote:


Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker. A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it. There
are examples in zoological museums.
===
Can you please give me an address where I may view the specimens you claim
are in zoological museums. I do not believe you have the credentials to
make such claims.

You don't need "credentials" to see the obvious. The tags on the
snakes say "killed by a mountain biker". DUH!

Have the specimens been peer reviewed, and judged by scientific method to
have been "ran over" as you americans say.

Yes.
Who did the review or examination? Where? When? Where are the actual
documents on results?
Are you going to answer his DIRECT question? He asked you for a physical
ADDRESS to view these alleged specimens.

Find them yourselves. I don't want them stolen.

As have I:
**********
"Thats a laugh! You say they exist therefore it is on you to provide the
PROOF. Your statement "They must be pretty common" is an assumption based on
your OPINION. I've been riding for years and haven't come across an animal
that shows signs it was killed by a cyclist. It is rare to find a dead
animal along the trail killed by any means. You can either provide the
scientific and conclusive evidence from this biologist (a name, and facility
association as well) or you are claiming something you can not prove.
"Because you say so" is not evidence. If you were HONEST, you would have NO
DIFFICULTY providing this proof.

This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.
STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are examples
in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...? Which
museums...? If there are examples, then it should be easy for you to
supply the names.

If you were smart (or cared), you would already know that information.

Sorry - my "Kreskin Skills" are limited when it comes to devining
information from morons. YOU say it is there. If you honestly thought your
statements were true, you would gladly offer real information to support
them instead of trying to sidetrack and misdirect inquiries.So.... Either
provide proof of your statements or, by not doing so, provide the proof you
are lying
That should be easy to grasp by someone with a PhD... Even if it is on fast
food preperation. "
***********************
So which is it? Definate proof with names, addresses, specimen names and
location / case / reference / number. Something TANGIBLE that can be
verified.
This should be EASY if it is actual.

Either provide real and verifiable evidence to support your statements
concerning these "animals" or, by not doing so, acknowledge you are a liar.


===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:25:38 -0500, "S Curtiss"
wrote:

Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker. A hiker can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush it. There
are examples in zoological museums.
===
Can you please give me an address where I may view the specimens you
claim
are in zoological museums. I do not believe you have the credentials to
make such claims.

You don't need "credentials" to see the obvious. The tags on the
snakes say "killed by a mountain biker". DUH!

Have the specimens been peer reviewed, and judged by scientific method
to
have been "ran over" as you americans say.

Yes.
Who did the review or examination? Where? When? Where are the actual
documents on results?
Are you going to answer his DIRECT question? He asked you for a physical
ADDRESS to view these alleged specimens.

Find them yourselves. I don't want them stolen.
Thanks for the PROOF you can not back up your own statements. If you were
confident of your statements and you were honest in your mind you would have
no issue with providing verifiable information.
Since you can not, your statements of the existence of this "evidence" is a
lie until you can show otherwise.
But we all knew that.
Now, thanks to Google archiving, everybody will.

As have I:
**********
"Thats a laugh! You say they exist therefore it is on you to provide the
PROOF. Your statement "They must be pretty common" is an assumption based
on
your OPINION. I've been riding for years and haven't come across an animal
that shows signs it was killed by a cyclist. It is rare to find a dead
animal along the trail killed by any means. You can either provide the
scientific and conclusive evidence from this biologist (a name, and
facility
association as well) or you are claiming something you can not prove.
"Because you say so" is not evidence. If you were HONEST, you would have
NO
DIFFICULTY providing this proof.

This is, as it has always been, an example you CLAIM proves off-road
cyclist
behavior but you have no REAL EVIDENCE. Your word means NOTHING.

Beyond that you are AGAIN avoiding the DIRECT questions:
What examples? Which museums? Which ones are labeled "destroyed" or
"crushed" by "mountain bikers"? Which ones have documents showing
they
were
definately killed by mountain bikers? Which ones document eye
witness
accounts of the death by "mountain bikers"?
STILL NO ANSWER TO DIRECT QUESTIONS ON POINT AND PROOF.
And that speaks VOLUMES on your credibility as a LIAR.
STILL NO ANSWER on a direct point YOU MADE. YOU stated "There are
examples
in zoological museums". So, go ahead, which examples...? Which
museums...? If there are examples, then it should be easy for you to
supply the names.

If you were smart (or cared), you would already know that information.

Sorry - my "Kreskin Skills" are limited when it comes to devining
information from morons. YOU say it is there. If you honestly thought your
statements were true, you would gladly offer real information to support
them instead of trying to sidetrack and misdirect inquiries.So....
Either
provide proof of your statements or, by not doing so, provide the proof
you
are lying
That should be easy to grasp by someone with a PhD... Even if it is on
fast
food preperation. "
***********************
So which is it? Definate proof with names, addresses, specimen names and
location / case / reference / number. Something TANGIBLE that can be
verified.
This should be EASY if it is actual.

Either provide real and verifiable evidence to support your statements
concerning these "animals" or, by not doing so, acknowledge you are a
liar.

Thanks for the PROOF you can not back up your own statements. If you were
confident of your statements and you were honest in your mind you would have
no issue with providing verifiable information.
Since you can not, your statements of the existence of this "evidence" is a
lie until you can show otherwise.
But we all knew that.
Now, thanks to Google archiving, everybody will.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Bill Sornson" wrote in
:


"wizardB" wrote in message
news:ZZrwh.847267$R63.445391@pd7urf1no...
Bill Sornson wrote:
Ale Brewer wrote:

I find mikeys little responses so amusing. He can't even support
his own arguments. Quite pathetic actually

Almost as pathetic as re-posting 7 KB's worth of Vandedrivel {tm}
just to add your too little sense.

HTH.

BS (really)
Or double posting even!

That's more stupid than pathetic


Agreed

-- I should know! (Ol' Ale Brew
snuck himself into the "Reply Group" option, so my munged addy caused
my server to belch. Twice.)

Bill "hope that wasn't too techy" S.





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:25:38 -0500, "S Curtiss"

wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 17:29:31 -0700, "TJ"
wrote:


Of course. Just A LOT LESS than any mountain biker. A hiker
can and
will step over an animal on the trail. A mountain biker
most likely
will never even know it was there, and will certainly crush
it. There
are examples in zoological museums.
===
Can you please give me an address where I may view the
specimens you claim
are in zoological museums. I do not believe you have the
credentials to
make such claims.

You don't need "credentials" to see the obvious. The tags on
the
snakes say "killed by a mountain biker". DUH!

Have the specimens been peer reviewed, and judged by
scientific method to
have been "ran over" as you americans say.

Yes.
Who did the review or examination? Where? When? Where are the
actual
documents on results?
Are you going to answer his DIRECT question? He asked you for a
physical
ADDRESS to view these alleged specimens.

Find them yourselves. I don't want them stolen.


Translation: Mickey has yet again been caught in his lies.

Keep up the good work exposing your stupidity mickey...


PS Bob jumped...