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  #1  
Old February 4th 20, 05:54 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Danger! Danger!

On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the ability to blame someone else begin?
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  #2  
Old February 4th 20, 06:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Danger! Danger!

On 2/4/2020 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the ability to blame someone else begin?


I think there's more blame on plaintiff counsel than defense.

Besides that, the exact mechanism is more probably a
discount or threat of discontinuation from the insurance
carrier. Risk management has many aspects, a "Don't do that
- we told you so." statement being one, because the risk of
highest concern isn't the end user but rather the carrier.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #3  
Old February 4th 20, 06:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Danger! Danger!

Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of
things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that
handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the
ability to blame someone else begin?


Yeah, it’s all Jay’s fault. Maybe if we burn him at the stake, things will
get better.

  #4  
Old February 4th 20, 07:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ted Heise
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 136
Default Danger! Danger!

On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 11:06:00 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 2/4/2020 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles
because I ran out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should
be installed and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never
modify your bicycle or accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might
we hear a muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all
the mods on my MTB I should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not
without a hot guacamole sauce :-)

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these
sorts of things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you
work for a firm that handles personal injuries? At what point
does common sense end and the ability to blame someone else
begin?


I think there's more blame on plaintiff counsel than defense.

Besides that, the exact mechanism is more probably a discount
or threat of discontinuation from the insurance carrier. Risk
management has many aspects, a "Don't do that
- we told you so." statement being one, because the risk of
highest concern isn't the end user but rather the carrier.


Spot on, Andrew. Failure to warn is a big hammer for plaintiff's
attorneys in liability lawsuits--sometimes even when warning has
been made.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA
  #5  
Old February 4th 20, 07:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Danger! Danger!

On Tuesday, February 4, 2020 at 9:26:07 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of
things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that
handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the
ability to blame someone else begin?


Yeah, it’s all Jay’s fault. Maybe if we burn him at the stake, things will
get better.


Ralph, wake up, Jay is just a guy working in a business that has caused all of this sort of crap. All things that were started with good intentions eventually become perverted by those trying to take advantage of a system. This is why government HAS to be as small as is possible. Look at what we've ended up with - a government in California that tells people they have to increase gas taxes to fix the roads and then uses the money to five themselves higher wages and more benefits and screw the roads that the people wanted repaired.

Do you suppose that Jay wouldn't take advantage of a faulty system in half a second as a large percentage of people would? I settled my personal injury claim for far too little since my toenail STILL hasn't grown back in after two years. So I have sore toes still. I didn't want to screw the insurance company or the lady driver and instead screwed myself. With proper consul I'm sure that it would have been more equal. But then that cost money that would then cost the insurance company etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.

As I said, at what point does personal responsibility end and the ability to blame others (honestly) begin?
  #6  
Old February 4th 20, 07:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Danger! Danger!

On Tuesday, February 4, 2020 at 9:06:39 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/4/2020 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the ability to blame someone else begin?


I think there's more blame on plaintiff counsel than defense.

Besides that, the exact mechanism is more probably a
discount or threat of discontinuation from the insurance
carrier. Risk management has many aspects, a "Don't do that
- we told you so." statement being one, because the risk of
highest concern isn't the end user but rather the carrier.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


One of the things I wonder about in this age of information: If I sue someone for real harm does it mean that MY insurance company might suppose that I'm liable to be more combative and increase MY rates?
  #7  
Old February 4th 20, 08:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Danger! Danger!

On Tuesday, February 4, 2020 at 10:25:12 AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, February 4, 2020 at 9:26:07 AM UTC-8, Ralph Barone wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of
things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that
handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the
ability to blame someone else begin?


Yeah, it’s all Jay’s fault. Maybe if we burn him at the stake, things will
get better.


Ralph, wake up, Jay is just a guy working in a business that has caused all of this sort of crap. All things that were started with good intentions eventually become perverted by those trying to take advantage of a system. This is why government HAS to be as small as is possible. Look at what we've ended up with - a government in California that tells people they have to increase gas taxes to fix the roads and then uses the money to five themselves higher wages and more benefits and screw the roads that the people wanted repaired.

Do you suppose that Jay wouldn't take advantage of a faulty system in half a second as a large percentage of people would? I settled my personal injury claim for far too little since my toenail STILL hasn't grown back in after two years. So I have sore toes still. I didn't want to screw the insurance company or the lady driver and instead screwed myself. With proper consul I'm sure that it would have been more equal. But then that cost money that would then cost the insurance company etc. etc. etc. ad infinitum.

As I said, at what point does personal responsibility end and the ability to blame others (honestly) begin?


Uh, Tom, I represent insurance companies and big and small businesses, including bicycle manufacturers and occasionally shops. That's why I'm poor, although I can get an occasional pro deal.

Every claim is stupid until it happens to you, your wife or child. Comparative fault generally evens things out, but there are some doctrines that clearly skew against company defendants. In Oregon at least, the trial lawyers have huge clout. Contingent fees are powerful things.

State defendants do have certain immunities that can seem unfair when you're on the receiving end. We represent an excellent state teaching hospital that is subject to the state tort claims. It's important to protect the public fisk, but as I stood in a treatment room, watching a (looked like) twelve year old doctor screw a steel frame onto my wife's head before brain surgery, I kind of wondered about that damages cap. BTW, it worked out fine.

On the flip side, there are some really stupid cases that I have defended involving lots of different products. My favorite was a trial court action and Ninth Circuit appeal involving an inmate suit against Wild Turkey for selling intoxicating liquor -- whisky (and beer) ruined the plaintiff's life and landed him in prison. Who knew. That didn't even go to argument. Truly stupid cases handled by lawyers are pretty rare and usually get dismissed, but not always. One hopes the jury does the right thing, e.g. https://law.justia.com/cases/oregon/...9/a165903.html

-- Jay Beattie.




  #8  
Old February 4th 20, 11:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Danger! Danger!

On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 08:54:06 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the ability to blame someone else begin?



I suggest that you have the cart before the horse... but then you are
prone to do that, aren't you?

My experience with litigation was that it is the company or individual
that perceives that they were being cheated in some manner and went
hunting for a lawyer to take their case to court.

Example: The company I worked for was defrauded by the acts of a
company that they had contracted to perform work for and thus lost
about $1,000,000 on the project. Feeling a bit put upon we decided to
sue them to recover monies that we felt owed to us. So we went looking
for a lawyer.

Note, no lawyer came looking for us.

And, yes, we were able to prove our case and did recover our
$1,000,000, whereupon we had to pay our lawyer :-)
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #9  
Old February 4th 20, 11:37 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 547
Default Danger! Danger!

On Tue, 4 Feb 2020 10:27:41 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Tuesday, February 4, 2020 at 9:06:39 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/4/2020 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles because I ran
out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should be installed
and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never modify your bicycle or
accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might we hear a
muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all the mods on my MTB I
should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not without a
hot guacamole sauce :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these sorts of things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you work for a firm that handles personal injuries? At what point does common sense end and the ability to blame someone else begin?


I think there's more blame on plaintiff counsel than defense.

Besides that, the exact mechanism is more probably a
discount or threat of discontinuation from the insurance
carrier. Risk management has many aspects, a "Don't do that
- we told you so." statement being one, because the risk of
highest concern isn't the end user but rather the carrier.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


One of the things I wonder about in this age of information: If I sue someone for real harm does it mean that MY insurance company might suppose that I'm liable to be more combative and increase MY rates?


I can't say for personal insurance but from a corporate view point our
insurance company(s) looked at money in/money out. If we had claimed
more than we had paid in premiums for two years in succession our
rates got raised. If we had paid more in premiums than we had claimed
we could argue, and did, that our rates should be lowered.

Note here, this was for several million dollars in coverage and our
premiums were in the thousands of dollars range so we were probably
considered a valuable customer by the insurance company(s).
--

Cheers,

John B.
  #10  
Old February 5th 20, 04:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,318
Default Danger! Danger!

On Tuesday, February 4, 2020 at 4:50:18 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 2/4/2020 12:11 PM, Ted Heise wrote:
On Tue, 04 Feb 2020 11:06:00 -0600,
AMuzi wrote:
On 2/4/2020 10:54 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, February 3, 2020 at 3:46:36 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
Just received another four 700c tires from Summit Bicycles
because I ran out. The packing slip ends with:

Quote

"WARNING! Cycling can be dangerous! Bicycle products should
be installed and serviced by a professional mechanic. Never
modify your bicycle or accessories ..."

If I install the new tire myself and pump it to 100psi, might
we hear a muffled boom and see a mushroom cloud? And with all
the mods on my MTB I should be dead by now.

At least it didn't say not to eat the tires, or at least not
without a hot guacamole sauce :-)

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

It certainly seems ridiculous that people like Jay force these
sorts of things onto the public. Jay, didn't you say that you
work for a firm that handles personal injuries? At what point
does common sense end and the ability to blame someone else
begin?

I think there's more blame on plaintiff counsel than defense.

Besides that, the exact mechanism is more probably a discount
or threat of discontinuation from the insurance carrier. Risk
management has many aspects, a "Don't do that
- we told you so." statement being one, because the risk of
highest concern isn't the end user but rather the carrier.


Spot on, Andrew. Failure to warn is a big hammer for plaintiff's
attorneys in liability lawsuits--sometimes even when warning has
been made.


I became an expert through the school of hard knocks. Once
had a $5MM umbrella liability policy above general business
insurance. Bad idea- it's like spilled sugar to a cockroach.
'Failure to warn' cost my carrier six million dollars and my
coverage was cancelled despite our having no direct nexus to
the actual (uninsured drunk driver) event.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


The problem with drunk driving laws is that they are applying them to someone that just had a beer because some people are uncontrollable drunks. None of the members of my family had their ability to drive impaired under the old standard. If anything they would drive more carefully because their reaction times might have been increased. Rather than cops being more observant of people's dangerous driving they simple reduced the legal alcohol limit by 20%.

What is the purpose of punishing someone who is driving carefully because they have alcohol in their system when they are struck by a sober person running a red light over the speed limit?
 




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