4-Cross or 5-Cross, help me decide

On Sep 22, 10:25*am, pH wrote:
Well, with the days getting shorter, I'm in the mood to build a wheel.

I have the hub/rim and it will be 48 spokes since that's what I like.

I built my last one 4X, so what are the arguments for or against 5X?

I'm leaning towards doing it 5X just because I have not done one
before....but if I end up
with spoke-head madness at the hub...hmm.

It would be nice to hear from some of you who have actually done one 5
cross.

pH

In a 48 hole wheel a 5 cross , is like a 4 cross in a 36 hole hub.
I built up my 48 spoke touring bike rear wheel in the mid 80's with a
Phil 48 hole hub, 5 cross ..

first cross is the spoke headed to the opposite side of the rim.
makes flange tear-out really unlikely as it is in compression, between
adjacent holes.

so the opposite extreme of a 1 cross..

In article
,
pH wrote:

Well, with the days getting shorter, I'm in the mood to build a wheel.

I have the hub/rim and it will be 48 spokes since that's what I like.

I built my last one 4X, so what are the arguments for or against 5X?

I'm leaning towards doing it 5X just because I have not done one
before....but if I end up
with spoke-head madness at the hub...hmm.

It would be nice to hear from some of you who have actually done one 5
cross.

Cross count only matters between zero cross and 1+ cross.
The proper cross count is that which puts the spokes near
tangential to the flange. More important is shaping the
spokes at and around the drillings, and near the
nipple when the spoke gets to the rim drilling at an angle
too far off perpendicular.

--
Michael Press

On Sep 23, 12:42*am, Chalo wrote:
pH wrote:

Well, with the days getting shorter, I'm in the mood to build a wheel.

I have the hub/rim and it will be 48 spokes since that's what I like.

I built my last one 4X, so what are the arguments for or against 5X?

I'm leaning towards doing it 5X just because I have not done one
before....but if I end up
with spoke-head madness at the hub...hmm.

It would be nice to hear from some of you who have actually done one 5
cross.

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times. *It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. *If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. *But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

I say give it a try. *That lacing gives a unique basket-like look.

Chalo

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring bikes wheels for over 10 years.

sold them(40/48 pair) still true and sound when I Built another set
with Bullseye hubs
and a rim with a wider brake track, than the Mavic Mod 4.

Zarniwoop wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times. *It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. *If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. *But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
*between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring *bikes wheels for over 10 years.

Phil hubs have nice thick flanges.

I tore out the flanges of two World Class tandem hubs in a row. They
were laced cross-four, but that was as many crosses as I could manage
without overlapping the heads.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-103.html

For what it's worth, that (front) wheel has been replaced with a 36
spoke tarck (sic) bike wheel with a deep rim. The rear wheel is still
a 48 spoke unit, but with a high flange hub. So far so good.

Chalo

On Sep 23, 11:42*pm, Chalo wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times. *It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. *If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. *But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
*between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring *bikes wheels for over 10 years.

Phil hubs have nice thick flanges.

I tore out the flanges of two World Class tandem hubs in a row. *They
were laced cross-four, but that was as many crosses as I could manage
without overlapping the heads.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-103.html

For what it's worth, that (front) wheel has been replaced with a 36
spoke tarck (sic) bike wheel with a deep rim. *The rear wheel is still
a 48 spoke unit, but with a high flange hub. *So far so good.

Chalo

I tore out the flange of a 36 spoke PW hub, but it was old -- and I
probably re-laced it a few times without keeping track of spoke
orientation. It had at least one bearing replacement, too.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sep 24, 7:42*am, Chalo wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times. *It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. *If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. *But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
*between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring *bikes wheels for over 10 years.

Phil hubs have nice thick flanges.

I tore out the flanges of two World Class tandem hubs in a row. *They
were laced cross-four, but that was as many crosses as I could manage
without overlapping the heads.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-103.html

Weak flange caused by casting and overtensioned spokes, how about
backing it off a 1/4 turn :-D


For what it's worth, that (front) wheel has been replaced with a 36
spoke tarck (sic) bike wheel with a deep rim. *The rear wheel is still
a 48 spoke unit, but with a high flange hub. *So far so good.


Keep praying.

Chalo

LIFE RULE 41

DO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO MAKE YOUR LIFE MORE DIFFICULT THAN REQUIRED.

On Sep 23, 11:42*pm, Chalo wrote:
Zarniwoop wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times. *It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. *If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. *But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
*between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring *bikes wheels for over 10 years.

Phil hubs have nice thick flanges.

I tore out the flanges of two World Class tandem hubs in a row. *They
were laced cross-four, but that was as many crosses as I could manage
without overlapping the heads.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-103.html

For what it's worth, that (front) wheel has been replaced with a 36
spoke tarck (sic) bike wheel with a deep rim. *The rear wheel is still
a 48 spoke unit, but with a high flange hub. *So far so good.

Chalo

Thanks for all the input.

I finally decided to go with 4 cross.

(Mainly just because that's as high as the 'spocalc' spreadsheet
goes.)

Now that that's done I'm looking forward to the parts arrving.
I decided to go w/ Wheelsmith spokes this time because that's what
Peter White says he uses. My LBS'es all
seem to have DT only.

pH

On Sep 29, 10:22 am, pH wrote:
On Sep 23, 11:42 pm, Chalo wrote:



Zarniwoop wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times. It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring bikes wheels for over 10 years.

Phil hubs have nice thick flanges.

I tore out the flanges of two World Class tandem hubs in a row. They
were laced cross-four, but that was as many crosses as I could manage
without overlapping the heads.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-103.html

For what it's worth, that (front) wheel has been replaced with a 36
spoke tarck (sic) bike wheel with a deep rim. The rear wheel is still
a 48 spoke unit, but with a high flange hub. So far so good.

Chalo

Thanks for all the input.

I finally decided to go with 4 cross.

(Mainly just because that's as high as the 'spocalc' spreadsheet
goes.)

Now that that's done I'm looking forward to the parts arrving.
I decided to go w/ Wheelsmith spokes this time because that's what
Peter White says he uses. My LBS'es all
seem to have DT only.


I won't presume to speak for anyone, but I understand he chooses
Wheelsmith based on principle and personal umbrage re; DT, rather than
technical merit.

On Sep 29, 6:22*pm, pH wrote:
On Sep 23, 11:42*pm, Chalo wrote:









Zarniwoop wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times. *It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. *If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. *But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
*between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring *bikes wheels for over 10 years.

Phil hubs have nice thick flanges.

I tore out the flanges of two World Class tandem hubs in a row. *They
were laced cross-four, but that was as many crosses as I could manage
without overlapping the heads.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-103.html

For what it's worth, that (front) wheel has been replaced with a 36
spoke tarck (sic) bike wheel with a deep rim. *The rear wheel is still
a 48 spoke unit, but with a high flange hub. *So far so good.

Chalo

Thanks for all the input.

I finally decided to go with 4 cross.

(Mainly just because that's as high as the 'spocalc' spreadsheet
goes.)

Now that that's done I'm looking forward to the parts arrving.
I decided to go w/ Wheelsmith spokes this time because that's what
Peter White says he uses. My LBS'es all
seem to have DT only.

pH

It's good to make a decision. Enjoy weaving your wheel together.