4-Cross or 5-Cross, help me decide

On Sep 29, 10:28*am, Dan O wrote:
On Sep 29, 10:22 am, pH wrote:





On Sep 23, 11:42 pm, Chalo wrote:

Zarniwoop wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I like cross-5 lacing on 48 spoke wheels; I've used it many times.. *It
usually employs the same spoke length as cross-4 on 36 holes. *If you
have a low-flange 48 hole hub, you might have head overlap. *But a low-
flange 48 hole hub is a bad idea all the way around, because it is
prone to flange tear-out.

Ran a 5 cross Phil 48 hole what for phil is small flange,, cannot
imagine the compression forces
*between the holes doing any tear out, of spoke holes ..
these were my loaded touring *bikes wheels for over 10 years.

Phil hubs have nice thick flanges.

I tore out the flanges of two World Class tandem hubs in a row. *They
were laced cross-four, but that was as many crosses as I could manage
without overlapping the heads.

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-103.html

For what it's worth, that (front) wheel has been replaced with a 36
spoke tarck (sic) bike wheel with a deep rim. *The rear wheel is still
a 48 spoke unit, but with a high flange hub. *So far so good.

Chalo

Thanks for all the input.

I finally decided to go with 4 cross.

(Mainly just because that's as high as the 'spocalc' spreadsheet
goes.)

Now that that's done I'm looking forward to the parts arrving.
I decided to go w/ Wheelsmith spokes this time because that's what
Peter White says he uses. My LBS'es all
seem to have DT only.

I won't presume to speak for anyone, but I understand he chooses
Wheelsmith based on principle and personal umbrage re; DT, rather than
technical merit.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Oh...well....hmmm. Well, it's too late now, but that's nice to know.

I don't expect any problems but we'll see.

pH

You can type any number you like into spocalc. Pretty sure it's in the cell right below 4x.

use the wooden beam method for spoke lengths.

kolldata wrote:
use the wooden beam method for spoke lengths.

Might work once, but if you smack the guy in the head with a
wooden beam a second time, your numbers for the other wheel
may be in error.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Oct 1, 9:53*am, AMuzi wrote:
kolldata wrote:
use the wooden beam method for spoke lengths.

Might work once, but if you smack the guy in the head with a
wooden beam a second time, your numbers for the other wheel
may be in error.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971

spoke calc should ship with a dartboard

On Sep 22, 10:25*am, pH wrote:
Well, with the days getting shorter, I'm in the mood to build a wheel.

I have the hub/rim and it will be 48 spokes since that's what I like.

I built my last one 4X, so what are the arguments for or against 5X?

I'm leaning towards doing it 5X just because I have not done one
before....but if I end up
with spoke-head madness at the hub...hmm.

It would be nice to hear from some of you who have actually done one 5
cross.

pH

Well, it's done and is a thing of beauty.

There was some commentary on the accuracy of "spocalc" in the thread.

Well, I was wondering what would happen but it turned out that it did
fine. When I called it done the drive side spokes were about two full
turns from emerging from the spoke heads....close, but okay.

When I had the whole thing beginning to tension and checked the dish
for the first time I was a bit stunned to see I was off about a
centimeter. I thought "no way can I bring it over that far", but, a
bit at a time--and I did loosen the nondrive side about a half turn
during the process as things started to get real tight--I was able to
bring it over without too much trouble.

I put on the golld old Velox tape and a Zaffiro tire...which I've
never tried before, but the sidewall claims a 100psi limit, so I can
only hope the quality is decent (any opinions on that?)

I have not yet installed it because I'm lazy and not looking forward
to re-fiddling with the brakes...I've never enjoyed brakes...seems I
never get the toe-in right until the 4th try and I hate the squeal if
I mess up.

Anyway....thanks to all for your help and comments.

Pureheart

I have not yet installed it sice

pH wrote:

pH wrote:

Well, with the days getting shorter, I'm in the mood to build a wheel.

I have the hub/rim and it will be 48 spokes since that's what I like.

Well, it's done and is a thing of beauty.

Congratulations. I find building a 48 spoke wheel more gratifying
than one with a lower spoke count, if only because it's more work. It
also rewards consistent and methodical technique.

I put on the golld old Velox tape and a Zaffiro tire...which I've
never tried before, but the sidewall claims a 100psi limit, so I can
only hope the quality is decent (any opinions on that?)

I sell a lot of Vittoria Zaffiro 27x1-1/4" tires. They're good sturdy
tires, much more uniform than most 27" tires and much tougher than the
very nice Panaracer Pasela that is probably the finest tire still made
in ISO 630. Add the Michelin World Tour and those are about all the
27" tires I'd consider for my own bike (if I still had a 27" bike).

Chalo

On Oct 14, 12:21*am, Chalo wrote:
pH wrote:

pH wrote:

Well, with the days getting shorter, I'm in the mood to build a wheel..

I have the hub/rim and it will be 48 spokes since that's what I like.

Well, it's done and is a thing of beauty.

Congratulations. *I find building a 48 spoke wheel more gratifying
than one with a lower spoke count, if only because it's more work. *It
also rewards consistent and methodical technique.

I put on the golld old Velox tape and a Zaffiro tire...which I've
never tried before, but the sidewall claims a 100psi limit, so I can
only hope the quality is decent (any opinions on that?)

I sell a lot of Vittoria Zaffiro 27x1-1/4" tires. *They're good sturdy
tires, much more uniform than most 27" tires and much tougher than the
very nice Panaracer Pasela that is probably the finest tire still made
in ISO 630. *Add the Michelin World Tour and those are about all the
27" tires I'd consider for my own bike (if I still had a 27" bike).

Chalo

Thank-you. It does feel good.

I appreciate the good report on the Zaffiro and look forward to giving
it a whirl. I have a Pasela on my upright and
am un-nerved by the super-pliable sidewall, the Zaffiro is
reassuringly robust.

I noted that Continental and Schwalbe are both absent from your list
of 27" tires....
by accident or on purpose?

Boy, when I was young I once had a set of "Hutchinson" 27" tires that
I really really loved (on my old Peugeot).
I was really bummed that I could never find any more after I wore 'em
out.

I also like the Michelein World Tours but thought they quit making
them since I have not seen them for a
*long* time. And no Cheng Shin for me, thank-you, the rubber just
does not feel 'right'.

pH

pH

On Oct 14, 2:46*pm, pH wrote:
On Oct 14, 12:21*am, Chalo wrote:





pH wrote:

pH wrote:

Well, with the days getting shorter, I'm in the mood to build a wheel.

I have the hub/rim and it will be 48 spokes since that's what I like.

Well, it's done and is a thing of beauty.

Congratulations. *I find building a 48 spoke wheel more gratifying
than one with a lower spoke count, if only because it's more work. *It
also rewards consistent and methodical technique.

I put on the golld old Velox tape and a Zaffiro tire...which I've
never tried before, but the sidewall claims a 100psi limit, so I can
only hope the quality is decent (any opinions on that?)

I sell a lot of Vittoria Zaffiro 27x1-1/4" tires. *They're good sturdy
tires, much more uniform than most 27" tires and much tougher than the
very nice Panaracer Pasela that is probably the finest tire still made
in ISO 630. *Add the Michelin World Tour and those are about all the
27" tires I'd consider for my own bike (if I still had a 27" bike).

Chalo

Thank-you. *It does feel good.

I appreciate the good report on the Zaffiro and look forward to giving
it a whirl. *I have a Pasela on my upright and
am un-nerved by the super-pliable sidewall, the Zaffiro is
reassuringly robust.

I noted that Continental and Schwalbe are both absent from your list
of 27" tires....
by accident or on purpose?

Boy, when I was young I once had a set of "Hutchinson" 27" tires that
I really really loved (on my old Peugeot).
I was really bummed that I could never find any more after I wore 'em
out.

I also like the Michelein World Tours but thought they quit making
them since I have not seen them for a
*long* time. *And no Cheng Shin for me, thank-you, the rubber just
does not feel 'right'.

pH

pH- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

STARTED OUT with a 27" '78 Rampar Record (Raleigh). Got hooked on
Conti TT 27". super ! rolll roll rolll...called the warehouse in
Colorado abt availalility circa ? 1997 ? Conti said there was a stack
of hundreds.
ahhh but the truth was the 27" Conti were last made circa 1986 ? and
made no more...
so one day I went to Harris Cyclery for more and in bold IMPACT font
Harris Bro. said

NEVERMORE NEVERMORE...

cost $400 shuffling over.

first 50m miles on the first 700 wheel, ran it thru an antique storm
grate with no cross steels.
mother****er !

pH wrote:

I noted that Continental and Schwalbe are both absent from your list
of 27" tires....
by accident or on purpose?

I like the Conti Gatorskin just fine, but I think it's far too
expensive for what it is. The Conti Ultra Sport is basically
equivalent to the Zaffiro, maybe just a little more supple, but it
isn't quite as consistent as the Zaffiro and it has the famous
Continental too-tight fit.

I've never used or sold a Schwalbe 27" tire, but I'm reserved about
recommending Schwalbe tires in general. At their best they are
outstanding tires-- tough, fast, and long-lasting. At their worst
they're lumpy, too expensive, and prone to casing failures.

Chalo