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Ok, what is with clipless or clips?



 
 
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  #31  
Old November 4th 04, 05:55 PM
Badger_South
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:52:16 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote:

"Badger_South" wrote

Just wanted the noobs to realize it's not that difficult to go to

clipless,
find a shoe, and be happy, and that going 'inexpensive' had pitfalls.


But that's my point, I don't think it does have "pitfalls". Spend more if
you want, but the cheap stuff works fine, particularly for entry-level road
use.


We'll have to agree to disagree, then, b/c I want the best shoes I can
afford, but at a price/performance break, since I'm going to be in them all
the time. Don't want any loose threads unravelling at the side after 6
months, etc. You do get what you pay for. Now the actual pedals, I'd say of
course if you know of a 'sleeper' deal, or rebranding, by all means.

I'm quite surprised, but shouldn't be, that I'm having absolutely zero
problems, no knee pain, nothing. Granted I've not taken this system on a
very long ride, and that may be when problems show up.


Knee problems do only show up after significant mileage. My experience has
been that setting toe-in angle of the cleat is necessary, float isn't.


Yeah, my right foot feels perfect. (we'll see), but the left foot seems
like the neutral position is "\", or slightly toed-out, and my foot wants
to be more "|", or straight ahead - it feels slightly like it's slipping to
the toe-out on the left, and holding perfectly straight on the right. Both
were set up the same, AFAIK.


But I'm loving them on the foothills! I'm getting so much power, I'm almost
skipping the back wheel when sprinting uphill and quickly accelerating.


You're getting more force. Any pedal that keeps your foot attached allows
you to pull up, achieving more force. Consider for a moment, if you haven't
already, what happens if that pedal should release when you're pulling up
hard. Pulling up is not necessary or desirable outside of racing. It's a
*really* bad idea when you're a clipless newb.


Now we say 'pull up', but I don't have any conscious notion of doing that,
though I must be. Definitely feel like my pedal 'circle' needs to be more
level - with toeclips I was pointing my toe too much, as I now know.

Thanks for the comments.

-B

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  #32  
Old November 4th 04, 07:00 PM
dgk
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On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 08:24:57 -0500, Badger_South
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:05:39 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote:

"Badger_South" wrote

Think about it, though. You get an inexpensive pedal and an inexpensive
shoe and it might work for you, but for most newbies, I say get solid
middle-of-the-line shoes, be prepared to pay 50-80 bucks. You -do- get
what you pay for. You'll presumably be using these for 20-30 days per month
you want something that's durable, functional and comfortable. You go
cheap on the shoe and I'd wonder if you'd not regret that. You also want them
to look cool. Again, spending a lot of time in them.

On the pedals, don't get the very bottom of the line, go up one and get the
SPD M520. Solid performers and something that you're gonna be depending
to quite heavily.


Wellgo is a brand of Taiwanese pedals that is re-labeled by several brands
(Performance, Nashbar, Ritchey). Wellgo pedals are generally very good, and
half the price of Shimano equivalent. Wellgo "SPD-style" pedals come with a
variety of cleats. Some are interchangeable with Shimano, some not. I've
found that the pedals with the "98A" cleat usually are (both ways). I have
a few sets of "bottom-of-the-line" Shimano (515). I think I paid $32 last
year. They're fine, and considering they come with cleats (most pedals do),
which cost $20 separately, they were quite the deal. Perfectly good Wellgo
pedals are often sold as low as $20.

Road use is simple compared to off-road, anything that works well for MTB
is fine for the road, spending a little more for MTB pedals might be a good
idea, since the application is much more demanding.


Good to know, and if you're experienced at this, it's silly -not- to shop
for deals. (note I said 'for most newbies').

Just wanted the noobs to realize it's not that difficult to go to clipless,
find a shoe, and be happy, and that going 'inexpensive' had pitfalls. If
you're an experienced cyclist and you're taking your noob buddy in to get
shoes, and help with the selection, then sure, try some rebranded stuff.

I'm quite surprised, but shouldn't be, that I'm having absolutely zero
problems, no knee pain, nothing. Granted I've not taken this system on a
very long ride, and that may be when problems show up. I'm planning on
getting in a modest 30 miles or more this weekend on the flats to see how
things go, and then move up the distance.

But I'm loving them on the foothills! I'm getting so much power, I'm almost
skipping the back wheel when sprinting uphill and quickly accelerating.

-B

I'll go to the LBS, prepared with potential prices. I like the guys
and want to help keep them in business, so if it costs a bit more,
that's ok. They're there when I need them.
  #33  
Old November 4th 04, 10:59 PM
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dgk what? writes:

Ok, I've seen guys get of those "clipless" pedals and they clunk
around in those shoes. So if I go this route then I have to walk
around in these things until I can get to my office and change back
to sneakers (my normal cycling gear)?


SPD cleats are recessed and the Shimano TO-93 shoe is a convenient
walking shoe while not compromising its bicycling features. It has
good rubber soles.

Jobst Brandt

  #34  
Old November 4th 04, 11:04 PM
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dabac writes:

Rotation release came to bicycling from skiing where step-in
engagement and rotation release was introduced years earlier


Came from skiing? Unless you mean the very basic principle of push
down to engage - twist to disengage I find it very hard to seen a
carryover between skiing and cycling in this case.


Look was the company that first mass marketed the ski binding and
later the bicycle cleat/pedal.

And at the push-and-twist level I think an explanation along the
lines of parallell evolution is more probable. After all, how many
realistic alternative methods are there to engage/disengage your
foot from the pedal?


(hand operated? - no great improvement from clip+strap)
(pull to disengage - how to separate between power pull and dismount
pull?)
(Push to disengage - see above
(pull to engage - that'd be a conflict of forces!)
(twist to engage - that could work...)


You can be sure the people in the business have studies this. I think
the current SPD cleat has the fewest drawbacks.

Jobst Brandt

  #35  
Old November 4th 04, 11:09 PM
Blair P. Houghton
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Benjamin Lewis wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
do not spam wrote:
Clipless are easier to get out of than toe clips.


Depends on how experienced you are with either.


Perhaps, but in my experience clipless were *much* easier to get out of
when I'd had about equal experience with each. This probably depends
somewhat on clipless pedal design, how tight you like your straps to be,
etc.


....and whether you used both cleats and clips...

--Blair
"Which I never did."
  #36  
Old November 4th 04, 11:19 PM
Benjamin Lewis
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Blair P. Houghton wrote:

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
Blair P. Houghton wrote:
do not spam wrote:
Clipless are easier to get out of than toe clips.

Depends on how experienced you are with either.


Perhaps, but in my experience clipless were *much* easier to get out of
when I'd had about equal experience with each. This probably depends
somewhat on clipless pedal design, how tight you like your straps to be,
etc.


...and whether you used both cleats and clips...

--Blair
"Which I never did."


I didn't either, and I kept my straps loose enough that I could pull out
fairly easily without loosening them by hand. I still find it
significantly easier to get out of my clipless pedals.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Evelyn the dog, having undergone further modification, pondered the
significance of short-person behavior in pedal-depressed panchromatic
resonance and other highly ambient domains... "Arf", she said.
 




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