#171
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Wheels and tires
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 5:53:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 4:29:50 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 4/1/2020 12:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 11:53:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:19 +0700, John B wrote: The Economic Policy Institute (which is a privately funded 'think-tank') estimates that some 14 million jobs could be lost by summer 2020. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...sses-by-summer By states: California - Projected job loss:1,609,975 Washington - 317,721 Ohio - 505,380 Illinois - 551,061 and so on. -- cheers, I think those are likely underestimates by 50% or more. Not only millions of jobs but hundreds of thousands of businesses will go up in smoke. Mine might be one of them. Millions of people face eviction or foreclosure as they can't pay the rent or mortgage. The right-wing delusional alternative appears to be to pretend it's not a problem, do nothing, try to keep the economy purring along in the face of a couple of million US deaths and tens of milions of deaths worlwide. I guess that's an option, except the economy still collapses and probably much harder since the wealthy will throw everyone else under the bus to protect themselves. Manufacturing has largely collapsed. The hospitality industry has collapsed. Oil has collapsed. The housing market will collapse. Unfortunately the virus doesn't give a ****. Every human is susceptible, it seems that none are immune, and our best hope is to delay as many people from getting it as long as we can. And to surive more or less intact we bite the bullet. We replace incomes of people whose jobs have gone away so they can pay their rents and mortgages and have health insurance. Those of us who get to keep our jobs and benefits- like myself and my wife so far- practice gratitude rather than seeing it as people getting "something for nothing." We replace at least some of the revenue businesses have lost so they can pay their overhead and keep some of their employees on the payroll. Massive debt? Yep. Avoiding wholesale economic collapse might be expensive. And why the hell hasn't Donald Trump offered his hotels to be used as temporary hospitals, unlike some others? *That* would be leadership. Although knowing the Trump Organization they'd probably charge the US government full rate... I went through the numbers and came up with an estimate of 33,000 or so people that could possibly die from the effects of civid-19. At the moment we have lost less than 15% of that and in another couple of weeks warmer weather will come on and people that aren't fighting 100 other health problems will be more resistant. It is FAR more of a problem to lose your job than to be threatened with a relatively minor disease don't you think? No, not if you're infecting people who will die, or your customers are infecting people who will die. Do you not understand the reason why certain businesses have been closed? Remember that the larger part of the yearly 38,000 lives have been lost to the seasonal flu at this same time. Are you panicked because of the seasonal flu? People under 60 comprise less than 3% of the covid-19 deaths and the average age of death from covid-9 is 80 years old. In the US the average age of death from all other reasons is also 80 years old. (actually using the group that is dying it would be 79 years old because women who usually live longer are underrepresented.) What I'm saying is that the REAL threat isn't to the lives of American but to the economy. There is no reason to be running around in circles crying that the sky is falling. You, as an individual, have a much higher chance of dying in an auto accident. Despite all of the statistics that we now have a fairly tight hold on, we see resolute panic in people like Jay who I would really expect a great deal more of. Perhaps his health isn't all he says it is? Or as Winston Churchill said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." WTF? Winston Churchill? A fifth grader knows that was FDR. His first inaugural address. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, Winston Churchill said /everything/. Kept him pretty busy. Others subsequently copied him. I thought all of Usenet knew that. ... or am I thinking of Ben Franklin? Mark J. Well, according to the Wiki Page: Nothing to fear but fear itself may refer to: A phrase from the 1933 inaugural address of Franklin D. Roosevelt "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the television series The Golden Girls "Nothing to Fear (But Fear Itself)", a song by Oingo Boingo on the 1996 album Nothing to Fear "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the American-Canadian television series Painkiller Jane (TV series) "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the Canadian television series Class of the Titans Maybe I was thinking of the Oingo Boingo song. Or Francis Bacon, who actually said something different. Francis was a great orator. I remember him well. I mean really, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" comes from FDR's speech. Most people don't know Francis Bacon from a bacon cheeseburger. And Churchill didn't say it. He said other great things, and some humorous things after Scotch number three at 10:00 AM. TK refuses to acknowledge FDR as a great leader because he was a communist Democrat. -- Jay Beattie. And if there is ever the perfect reference it is Wikipedia. |
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#172
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Wheels and tires
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 6:29:27 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2020 6:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 12:22:09 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 12:48 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:19 +0700, John B wrote: The Economic Policy Institute (which is a privately funded 'think-tank') estimates that some 14 million jobs could be lost by summer 2020. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...sses-by-summer By states: California - Projected job loss:1,609,975 Washington - 317,721 Ohio - 505,380 Illinois - 551,061 and so on. -- cheers, I think those are likely underestimates by 50% or more. Not only millions of jobs but hundreds of thousands of businesses will go up in smoke. Mine might be one of them. Millions of people face eviction or foreclosure as they can't pay the rent or mortgage. The right-wing delusional alternative appears to be to pretend it's not a problem, do nothing, try to keep the economy purring along in the face of a couple of million US deaths and tens of milions of deaths worlwide. I guess that's an option, except the economy still collapses and probably much harder since the wealthy will throw everyone else under the bus to protect themselves. Manufacturing has largely collapsed. The hospitality industry has collapsed. Oil has collapsed. The housing market will collapse. Unfortunately the virus doesn't give a ****. Every human is susceptible, it seems that none are immune, and our best hope is to delay as many people from getting it as long as we can. And to surive more or less intact we bite the bullet. We replace incomes of people whose jobs have gone away so they can pay their rents and mortgages and have health insurance. Those of us who get to keep our jobs and benefits- like myself and my wife so far- practice gratitude rather than seeing it as people getting "something for nothing." We replace at least some of the revenue businesses have lost so they can pay their overhead and keep some of their employees on the payroll. Massive debt? Yep. Avoiding wholesale economic collapse might be expensive. And why the hell hasn't Donald Trump offered his hotels to be used as temporary hospitals, unlike some others? *That* would be leadership. Although knowing the Trump Organization they'd probably charge the US government full rate... Both parties pigged out for their lobbyist pals on this spending spree and the President signed the damned thing. UK ordered a series of businesses closed and the Exchequer will cover those payrolls, based on prior payroll reports. You go, Boris! Of our $2 trillion pigfest, about 15% goes to employees in $1200 checks. With roughly 20% unemployed, the same equal amount goes to them as to people (I know several) making overtime and bonuses right now. Could anything be more ridiculous? Of course! Now both parties are talking another $2 trillion in 'infrastructure' (English term: pork). The Chinese virus is a problem. Fear is a weapon (employed well by most of the press and various politicians). Neither stops the corrupt class from draining the treasury for their pals, all while claiming to 'help the little guy', who is crewed both ways as always. The idea is that half of that went to the people who need it to pay their bills. It is their tax money being returned to them. It is part of an expanded national debt but if it pulls us out of this looming recession it would be worth it. That would be wrong again. The much touted $1200 checks, which will go out at government speed sometime in the unknown future, account for about 15% of the total CARES Act. Of that 15%, only an estimated 20% or less of US employees are laid off/fired as a result of the panic. Government clerks are sitting home at full pay as are union teachers etc. Police are out there doing what they do, face to face with maybe-healthy-maybe-not humans. Hospital staff are doing the same, from MDs to those little Guatemalan ladies who clean the place. Some chunk of Americans (and I know several) are banking overtime and bonus pay right now. SS recipients also get $1200. Each in his Marxist glory gets the same $1200 which effectively dilutes the benefit or raises the cost (or both) and hasn't paid today's April rent for one waitress. Boris Johnson not only rides a bicycle, he solved a problem of government creation more effectively at radically lower cost without our disruption. Hat's off to Boris! -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Andrew, if I understand it correctly (I haven't even found the bill on the internet and at over 800 pages of legalese it would require a month to absorb it) a large part of the original one trillion dollar stimulous package went to small businesses in the form of loans that if it was used for several things like employee wages would convert the loan to a grant. The EXTRA $1.2 Trillion was the work of Pelosi and those grants are absolutely bizarre. |
#173
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Wheels and tires
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 9:05:13 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 5:53:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: I mean really, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" comes from FDR's speech. Most people don't know Francis Bacon from a bacon cheeseburger. And Churchill didn't say it. He said other great things, and some humorous things after Scotch number three at 10:00 AM. TK refuses to acknowledge FDR as a great leader because he was a communist Democrat. -- Jay Beattie. And if there is ever the perfect reference it is Wikipedia. One of the very first things that FDR did upon entering office was to fire all of the black civil service workers and hire whites in their stead. He moved on to signing the Chinese Immigration block and later still put Americans of Japanese descent into concentration camps while Americans were in Europe to free Jews from concentration camps. In Washington State Jay's pals are freeing criminals from all of the prisons to wander the neighborhoods of Seattle and Bremerton and the like but if you say anything that can be interpreted as "hate speech" the police will arrest you. Elsewhere a man sleeping in his store was awoken to discover three masked men breaking into the store. He pulled out his gun an shot on of them who had a minor wound and held them at gun point until the police arrives. They released the criminals and arrested the shopkeeper. This is why there is something really really sick with Democrats and it would be a very good happenstance should Jay's company kick the bucket and he has to spend a little time off of the mountain top he sets himself upon. |
#174
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Wheels and tires
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 21:05:10 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 5:53:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 4:29:50 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 4/1/2020 12:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 11:53:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:19 +0700, John B wrote: The Economic Policy Institute (which is a privately funded 'think-tank') estimates that some 14 million jobs could be lost by summer 2020. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...sses-by-summer By states: California - Projected job loss:1,609,975 Washington - 317,721 Ohio - 505,380 Illinois - 551,061 and so on. -- cheers, I think those are likely underestimates by 50% or more. Not only millions of jobs but hundreds of thousands of businesses will go up in smoke. Mine might be one of them. Millions of people face eviction or foreclosure as they can't pay the rent or mortgage. The right-wing delusional alternative appears to be to pretend it's not a problem, do nothing, try to keep the economy purring along in the face of a couple of million US deaths and tens of milions of deaths worlwide. I guess that's an option, except the economy still collapses and probably much harder since the wealthy will throw everyone else under the bus to protect themselves. Manufacturing has largely collapsed. The hospitality industry has collapsed. Oil has collapsed. The housing market will collapse. Unfortunately the virus doesn't give a ****. Every human is susceptible, it seems that none are immune, and our best hope is to delay as many people from getting it as long as we can. And to surive more or less intact we bite the bullet. We replace incomes of people whose jobs have gone away so they can pay their rents and mortgages and have health insurance. Those of us who get to keep our jobs and benefits- like myself and my wife so far- practice gratitude rather than seeing it as people getting "something for nothing." We replace at least some of the revenue businesses have lost so they can pay their overhead and keep some of their employees on the payroll. Massive debt? Yep. Avoiding wholesale economic collapse might be expensive. And why the hell hasn't Donald Trump offered his hotels to be used as temporary hospitals, unlike some others? *That* would be leadership. Although knowing the Trump Organization they'd probably charge the US government full rate... I went through the numbers and came up with an estimate of 33,000 or so people that could possibly die from the effects of civid-19. At the moment we have lost less than 15% of that and in another couple of weeks warmer weather will come on and people that aren't fighting 100 other health problems will be more resistant. It is FAR more of a problem to lose your job than to be threatened with a relatively minor disease don't you think? No, not if you're infecting people who will die, or your customers are infecting people who will die. Do you not understand the reason why certain businesses have been closed? Remember that the larger part of the yearly 38,000 lives have been lost to the seasonal flu at this same time. Are you panicked because of the seasonal flu? People under 60 comprise less than 3% of the covid-19 deaths and the average age of death from covid-9 is 80 years old. In the US the average age of death from all other reasons is also 80 years old. (actually using the group that is dying it would be 79 years old because women who usually live longer are underrepresented.) What I'm saying is that the REAL threat isn't to the lives of American but to the economy. There is no reason to be running around in circles crying that the sky is falling. You, as an individual, have a much higher chance of dying in an auto accident. Despite all of the statistics that we now have a fairly tight hold on, we see resolute panic in people like Jay who I would really expect a great deal more of. Perhaps his health isn't all he says it is? Or as Winston Churchill said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." WTF? Winston Churchill? A fifth grader knows that was FDR. His first inaugural address. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, Winston Churchill said /everything/. Kept him pretty busy. Others subsequently copied him. I thought all of Usenet knew that. ... or am I thinking of Ben Franklin? Mark J. Well, according to the Wiki Page: Nothing to fear but fear itself may refer to: A phrase from the 1933 inaugural address of Franklin D. Roosevelt "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the television series The Golden Girls "Nothing to Fear (But Fear Itself)", a song by Oingo Boingo on the 1996 album Nothing to Fear "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the American-Canadian television series Painkiller Jane (TV series) "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the Canadian television series Class of the Titans Maybe I was thinking of the Oingo Boingo song. Or Francis Bacon, who actually said something different. Francis was a great orator. I remember him well. I mean really, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" comes from FDR's speech. Most people don't know Francis Bacon from a bacon cheeseburger. And Churchill didn't say it. He said other great things, and some humorous things after Scotch number three at 10:00 AM. TK refuses to acknowledge FDR as a great leader because he was a communist Democrat. -- Jay Beattie. And if there is ever the perfect reference it is Wikipedia. The thing that you don't seem to realize is that Wikipedia articles are not the product on any single person, they are written my anyone that wishes to contribute. And as they are edited by "any one" they tend to have fewer lies incorporated in them than something written by an individual who may be incapable of voicing anything than his own prejudices. So, if you disagree with what is written in a "Wiki" you are free to correct it. Providing, of course, that you do know what you are talking about... and providing, of course, that you can provide proof that you do, in fact, know what you are talking about. Which, come to think of it, probably disqualifies you. -- cheers, John B. |
#175
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Wheels and tires
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 5:53:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 4:29:50 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 4/1/2020 12:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 11:53:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:19 +0700, John B wrote: The Economic Policy Institute (which is a privately funded 'think-tank') estimates that some 14 million jobs could be lost by summer 2020. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...sses-by-summer By states: California - Projected job loss:1,609,975 Washington - 317,721 Ohio - 505,380 Illinois - 551,061 and so on. -- cheers, I think those are likely underestimates by 50% or more. Not only millions of jobs but hundreds of thousands of businesses will go up in smoke. Mine might be one of them. Millions of people face eviction or foreclosure as they can't pay the rent or mortgage. The right-wing delusional alternative appears to be to pretend it's not a problem, do nothing, try to keep the economy purring along in the face of a couple of million US deaths and tens of milions of deaths worlwide. I guess that's an option, except the economy still collapses and probably much harder since the wealthy will throw everyone else under the bus to protect themselves. Manufacturing has largely collapsed. The hospitality industry has collapsed. Oil has collapsed. The housing market will collapse. Unfortunately the virus doesn't give a ****. Every human is susceptible, it seems that none are immune, and our best hope is to delay as many people from getting it as long as we can. And to surive more or less intact we bite the bullet. We replace incomes of people whose jobs have gone away so they can pay their rents and mortgages and have health insurance. Those of us who get to keep our jobs and benefits- like myself and my wife so far- practice gratitude rather than seeing it as people getting "something for nothing." We replace at least some of the revenue businesses have lost so they can pay their overhead and keep some of their employees on the payroll. Massive debt? Yep. Avoiding wholesale economic collapse might be expensive. And why the hell hasn't Donald Trump offered his hotels to be used as temporary hospitals, unlike some others? *That* would be leadership. Although knowing the Trump Organization they'd probably charge the US government full rate... I went through the numbers and came up with an estimate of 33,000 or so people that could possibly die from the effects of civid-19. At the moment we have lost less than 15% of that and in another couple of weeks warmer weather will come on and people that aren't fighting 100 other health problems will be more resistant. It is FAR more of a problem to lose your job than to be threatened with a relatively minor disease don't you think? No, not if you're infecting people who will die, or your customers are infecting people who will die. Do you not understand the reason why certain businesses have been closed? Remember that the larger part of the yearly 38,000 lives have been lost to the seasonal flu at this same time. Are you panicked because of the seasonal flu? People under 60 comprise less than 3% of the covid-19 deaths and the average age of death from covid-9 is 80 years old. In the US the average age of death from all other reasons is also 80 years old. (actually using the group that is dying it would be 79 years old because women who usually live longer are underrepresented.) What I'm saying is that the REAL threat isn't to the lives of American but to the economy. There is no reason to be running around in circles crying that the sky is falling. You, as an individual, have a much higher chance of dying in an auto accident. Despite all of the statistics that we now have a fairly tight hold on, we see resolute panic in people like Jay who I would really expect a great deal more of. Perhaps his health isn't all he says it is? Or as Winston Churchill said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." WTF? Winston Churchill? A fifth grader knows that was FDR. His first inaugural address. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, Winston Churchill said /everything/. Kept him pretty busy. Others subsequently copied him. I thought all of Usenet knew that. ... or am I thinking of Ben Franklin? Mark J. Well, according to the Wiki Page: Nothing to fear but fear itself may refer to: A phrase from the 1933 inaugural address of Franklin D. Roosevelt "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the television series The Golden Girls "Nothing to Fear (But Fear Itself)", a song by Oingo Boingo on the 1996 album Nothing to Fear "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the American-Canadian television series Painkiller Jane (TV series) "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the Canadian television series Class of the Titans Maybe I was thinking of the Oingo Boingo song. Or Francis Bacon, who actually said something different. Francis was a great orator. I remember him well. I mean really, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" comes from FDR's speech. Most people don't know Francis Bacon from a bacon cheeseburger. And Churchill didn't say it. He said other great things, and some humorous things after Scotch number three at 10:00 AM. TK refuses to acknowledge FDR as a great leader because he was a communist Democrat. -- Jay Beattie. https://leadershipconfessions.typepa...ar-itself.html In truth, Franklin D. Roosevelt used the services of numerous speech writers, according to Dr. Buhite and David W. Levy in their book entitled FDR;s Fireside Chats, published by the University of Oklahoma Press, 1992. In the Buhite and Levy text, the authors lists speech writers as Harry Hopkins, Hugh Johnson, Raymond Moley, Rexford Tugwell, Benjamin Cohen, Thomas Corcoran, Donald Richberg, Adolf Berle and others. They list his WWII writers to include the famous Pulitizer Prize winners, poet-Librarian of Congress, Archibald MacLeish and Broadway playwrite Robert (Bob) Emmet Sherwood--(4 times a Pulitizer winner.) Now precisely who do you suppose would be able to steal a bit of Francis Lloyd Bacon - a poorly educated FDR with such strong communist leanings that he actually supported Stalin hence kept the US out of doing anything more than supporting Great Britain until Pearl Harbor made it clear that if you left Hitler go he would swallow the whole of Europe making him by far the strongest power in the world, or a few English majors educated in the classics? |
#176
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Wheels and tires
On 4/1/2020 9:44 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/1/2020 6:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/1/2020 6:52 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 4:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/1/2020 4:57 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 2:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 1:30:33 PM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:31:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/29/2020 11:55 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 5:36 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 18:59:10 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 3/26/2020 3:23 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 09:23:43 +0700, John B wrote: As for "hair on fire"... hardly :-) "Hair on fire" is Fox Newsspeak for anyone saying they don't think Trump is the Greatest President in Human history, especially criticism based on what Trump actually says instead of what he and his supporters pretend he said. Covfefe! It was a perfect call! And you should believe Vladimir over American intelligence professionals, he only has our best interests at heart. I take no position as it's very early in this thing. Too early for an afternoon of tea and medals, too early to hang the inept. But I did note the hue and cry about 'fascism' when we were the first country to restrict travel from China in January. The concerns about fascism predated COVID-19 by several years. But the Chinese virus is actually real. I thought it was an Italian virus now. It's an American virus at this point.* Time to move on. I agree, but I'd go further. It's a worldwide virus now. There is no point in trying to tie it to a particular country. It is, indeed, time to move on. Time to move on. Right. Reminds one of Joseph Stalin, "Death solves problems. No man, no problem." Doctor Li Wenliang, unfortunately died in custody after first reporting the Chinese Wuhan virus. Police regret the incident in a rare public statement. Reporters Fang Bin and a bit better known Chen Qiushi reported on the Chinese Wuhan Virus. Conveniently missing. This week Dr Ai Fen another doctor who wrote about the Chinese Wuhan virus on social media has gone missing. There are others of course but you get the idea. Meanwhile in my paper today is an interesting chart labeled 'Confirmed Cases Per Country" and credited to 'Johns Hopkins CSSE' (behind a paywall and I could not find a chart link) For Italy, the arc is a bit less steep at the last week or so. ROK has dramatically shallower increase after 10 March. USA, Spain and UK show the familiar arc, like annual influenza charts we all know. What catches the eye, however statistically improbable, is that China reports the usual arc until 15 February after which it's a straight horizontal line through end-March. So you're probably right. Sorta like Tibet, eh? Nothing to see here, Winnie The Pooh says 'move along now'. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/112985...-toll-of-2500/ https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/8...mains-each-day https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-covid...uggest-1494914 Can you specify the benefits of referring to this as "the Chinese virus" instead of the more common names used by medical professions - COVID-19, C19, novel corona virus, etc? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What do you call Marburg virus now? I had to look that one up. Apparently Marburg was the name originally given, not a renaming, as you're trying to do with COVID-19. In fact, if your example were followed, Marburg would have been changed to "The Ugandan Virus." https://www.who.int/health-topics/ma...ase/#tab=tab_1 How about Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever? (asking for a friend) That too, seems to be the original name, not a changed name. But you haven't explained what you're trying to accomplish. Naming these for the earliest noted or first* described location has a very long useful descriptive history from Lyme CT to the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong in 1968. My reference to having survived Hong Kong flu is not racist toward Englishmen or The Queen in any way nor should it be considered such. Our country has a serious problem with unfounded charges of racism, a much more serious problem than a few residual throwbacks among the citizenry and nearly as serious as institutional racism such as Harvard's pride in denying admission to overqualified Asian Americans because, heck, that might screw up the black admissions rate. p.s. Famous Frozen Italian Guy (nicknamed Otzi, melted from an ice field recently) had Lyme disease. He was born about 5300 years ago. Yes, we visited Otzi some years ago. He's in a little museum in an out-of-the-way town, a quick stop on the railroad. (The museum staff were nice enough to watch our bikes carefully while we visited.) It was very interesting indeed. But every disease name example you've given has the disease _originally_ and commonly named after the place it was first observed. None of them involve re-naming a disease after a particular location after the medical community and the general populace have already settled on a different name. So why are you attempting to do this? What do you hope to gain? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#177
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Wheels and tires
On Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 8:08:47 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 5:53:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 4:29:50 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 4/1/2020 12:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 11:53:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:19 +0700, John B wrote: The Economic Policy Institute (which is a privately funded 'think-tank') estimates that some 14 million jobs could be lost by summer 2020. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...sses-by-summer By states: California - Projected job loss:1,609,975 Washington - 317,721 Ohio - 505,380 Illinois - 551,061 and so on. -- cheers, I think those are likely underestimates by 50% or more. Not only millions of jobs but hundreds of thousands of businesses will go up in smoke. Mine might be one of them. Millions of people face eviction or foreclosure as they can't pay the rent or mortgage. The right-wing delusional alternative appears to be to pretend it's not a problem, do nothing, try to keep the economy purring along in the face of a couple of million US deaths and tens of milions of deaths worlwide. I guess that's an option, except the economy still collapses and probably much harder since the wealthy will throw everyone else under the bus to protect themselves. Manufacturing has largely collapsed. The hospitality industry has collapsed. Oil has collapsed. The housing market will collapse. Unfortunately the virus doesn't give a ****. Every human is susceptible, it seems that none are immune, and our best hope is to delay as many people from getting it as long as we can. And to surive more or less intact we bite the bullet. We replace incomes of people whose jobs have gone away so they can pay their rents and mortgages and have health insurance. Those of us who get to keep our jobs and benefits- like myself and my wife so far- practice gratitude rather than seeing it as people getting "something for nothing." We replace at least some of the revenue businesses have lost so they can pay their overhead and keep some of their employees on the payroll. Massive debt? Yep. Avoiding wholesale economic collapse might be expensive. And why the hell hasn't Donald Trump offered his hotels to be used as temporary hospitals, unlike some others? *That* would be leadership. Although knowing the Trump Organization they'd probably charge the US government full rate... I went through the numbers and came up with an estimate of 33,000 or so people that could possibly die from the effects of civid-19. At the moment we have lost less than 15% of that and in another couple of weeks warmer weather will come on and people that aren't fighting 100 other health problems will be more resistant. It is FAR more of a problem to lose your job than to be threatened with a relatively minor disease don't you think? No, not if you're infecting people who will die, or your customers are infecting people who will die. Do you not understand the reason why certain businesses have been closed? Remember that the larger part of the yearly 38,000 lives have been lost to the seasonal flu at this same time. Are you panicked because of the seasonal flu? People under 60 comprise less than 3% of the covid-19 deaths and the average age of death from covid-9 is 80 years old. In the US the average age of death from all other reasons is also 80 years old. (actually using the group that is dying it would be 79 years old because women who usually live longer are underrepresented.) What I'm saying is that the REAL threat isn't to the lives of American but to the economy. There is no reason to be running around in circles crying that the sky is falling. You, as an individual, have a much higher chance of dying in an auto accident. Despite all of the statistics that we now have a fairly tight hold on, we see resolute panic in people like Jay who I would really expect a great deal more of. Perhaps his health isn't all he says it is? Or as Winston Churchill said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." WTF? Winston Churchill? A fifth grader knows that was FDR. His first inaugural address. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, Winston Churchill said /everything/. Kept him pretty busy. Others subsequently copied him. I thought all of Usenet knew that. ... or am I thinking of Ben Franklin? Mark J. Well, according to the Wiki Page: Nothing to fear but fear itself may refer to: A phrase from the 1933 inaugural address of Franklin D. Roosevelt "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the television series The Golden Girls "Nothing to Fear (But Fear Itself)", a song by Oingo Boingo on the 1996 album Nothing to Fear "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the American-Canadian television series Painkiller Jane (TV series) "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the Canadian television series Class of the Titans Maybe I was thinking of the Oingo Boingo song. Or Francis Bacon, who actually said something different. Francis was a great orator. I remember him well. I mean really, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" comes from FDR's speech. Most people don't know Francis Bacon from a bacon cheeseburger. And Churchill didn't say it. He said other great things, and some humorous things after Scotch number three at 10:00 AM. TK refuses to acknowledge FDR as a great leader because he was a communist Democrat. -- Jay Beattie. https://leadershipconfessions.typepa...ar-itself.html In truth, Franklin D. Roosevelt used the services of numerous speech writers, according to Dr. Buhite and David W. Levy in their book entitled FDR;s Fireside Chats, published by the University of Oklahoma Press, 1992. In the Buhite and Levy text, the authors lists speech writers as Harry Hopkins, Hugh Johnson, Raymond Moley, Rexford Tugwell, Benjamin Cohen, Thomas Corcoran, Donald Richberg, Adolf Berle and others. They list his WWII writers to include the famous Pulitizer Prize winners, poet-Librarian of Congress, Archibald MacLeish and Broadway playwrite Robert (Bob) Emmet Sherwood--(4 times a Pulitizer winner.) Yes, FDR had talented speech writers. What is your point -- assuming you have one? All presidents use speech writers. Trump has speech writers, although bad ones, and he prefers to go off script and descend into third-grade rants about how people are mean to him. Now precisely who do you suppose would be able to steal a bit of Francis Lloyd Bacon - a poorly educated FDR with such strong communist leanings that he actually supported Stalin hence kept the US out of doing anything more than supporting Great Britain until Pearl Harbor made it clear that if you left Hitler go he would swallow the whole of Europe making him by far the strongest power in the world, or a few English majors educated in the classics? Poorly educated FDR? Groton and Harvard. Okey-dokey. Do you think FDR didn't know the classics? Groton is still known for its Latin and Greek curriculum. And you're a dope if you don't understand why FDR and Churchill supported (but didn't trust) Stalin. Remember the "eastern front"? Also go back and read some history -- the Republicans were the isolationists, and FDR had to whip votes just to get lend lease passed. Imagine if Trump were in charge during WW II, "Uh, I've heard that some of the Nazi guys are pretty bad, very bad, bad, but you know, there are good people on both sides. I've known some fine Nazi's, and you know, my Drumpf Plaza in Munich is probably the finest hotel in Europe. I've been told that by European people. Some of this Nazi stuff is just fake news, but my generals are telling me that maybe the Nazis are bad. You know, I've got kind of this natural talent for knowing when people are bad, and I don't know if my generals have that like me, so maybe those Nazis aren't so bad . . . etc., etc." He'd probably have Lindbergh as VP. England would have been lost.. You'd be speaking German or Japanese. -- Jay Beattie. |
#178
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Wheels and tires
On 4/2/2020 11:02 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/1/2020 9:44 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 6:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/1/2020 6:52 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 4:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/1/2020 4:57 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 2:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 1:30:33 PM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:31:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/29/2020 11:55 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 5:36 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 18:59:10 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 3/26/2020 3:23 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 09:23:43 +0700, John B wrote: As for "hair on fire"... hardly :-) "Hair on fire" is Fox Newsspeak for anyone saying they don't think Trump is the Greatest President in Human history, especially criticism based on what Trump actually says instead of what he and his supporters pretend he said. Covfefe! It was a perfect call! And you should believe Vladimir over American intelligence professionals, he only has our best interests at heart. I take no position as it's very early in this thing. Too early for an afternoon of tea and medals, too early to hang the inept. But I did note the hue and cry about 'fascism' when we were the first country to restrict travel from China in January. The concerns about fascism predated COVID-19 by several years. But the Chinese virus is actually real. I thought it was an Italian virus now. It's an American virus at this point. Time to move on. I agree, but I'd go further. It's a worldwide virus now. There is no point in trying to tie it to a particular country. It is, indeed, time to move on. Time to move on. Right. Reminds one of Joseph Stalin, "Death solves problems. No man, no problem." Doctor Li Wenliang, unfortunately died in custody after first reporting the Chinese Wuhan virus. Police regret the incident in a rare public statement. Reporters Fang Bin and a bit better known Chen Qiushi reported on the Chinese Wuhan Virus. Conveniently missing. This week Dr Ai Fen another doctor who wrote about the Chinese Wuhan virus on social media has gone missing. There are others of course but you get the idea. Meanwhile in my paper today is an interesting chart labeled 'Confirmed Cases Per Country" and credited to 'Johns Hopkins CSSE' (behind a paywall and I could not find a chart link) For Italy, the arc is a bit less steep at the last week or so. ROK has dramatically shallower increase after 10 March. USA, Spain and UK show the familiar arc, like annual influenza charts we all know. What catches the eye, however statistically improbable, is that China reports the usual arc until 15 February after which it's a straight horizontal line through end-March. So you're probably right. Sorta like Tibet, eh? Nothing to see here, Winnie The Pooh says 'move along now'. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/112985...-toll-of-2500/ https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/8...mains-each-day https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-covid...uggest-1494914 Can you specify the benefits of referring to this as "the Chinese virus" instead of the more common names used by medical professions - COVID-19, C19, novel corona virus, etc? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What do you call Marburg virus now? I had to look that one up. Apparently Marburg was the name originally given, not a renaming, as you're trying to do with COVID-19. In fact, if your example were followed, Marburg would have been changed to "The Ugandan Virus." https://www.who.int/health-topics/ma...ase/#tab=tab_1 How about Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever? (asking for a friend) That too, seems to be the original name, not a changed name. But you haven't explained what you're trying to accomplish. Naming these for the earliest noted or first described location has a very long useful descriptive history from Lyme CT to the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong in 1968. My reference to having survived Hong Kong flu is not racist toward Englishmen or The Queen in any way nor should it be considered such. Our country has a serious problem with unfounded charges of racism, a much more serious problem than a few residual throwbacks among the citizenry and nearly as serious as institutional racism such as Harvard's pride in denying admission to overqualified Asian Americans because, heck, that might screw up the black admissions rate. p.s. Famous Frozen Italian Guy (nicknamed Otzi, melted from an ice field recently) had Lyme disease. He was born about 5300 years ago. Yes, we visited Otzi some years ago. He's in a little museum in an out-of-the-way town, a quick stop on the railroad. (The museum staff were nice enough to watch our bikes carefully while we visited.) It was very interesting indeed. But every disease name example you've given has the disease _originally_ and commonly named after the place it was first observed. None of them involve re-naming a disease after a particular location after the medical community and the general populace have already settled on a different name. So why are you attempting to do this? What do you hope to gain? Suit yourself. As another poster here has noted, merely 'Chinese' is not enough descriptor, as this is only latest of a series which will likely continue. Hence 'Wuhan'. Also note that world news outlets including NYT and the government administrative propaganda network NPR referred to it as 'Wuhan virus' until our President used the term. That made for the latest breathless charge of racism[1]. The man has plenty to criticize, as I do nearly every day. You don't have to make things up! I also note that during the earlier Chinese virus event, Dr Margaret Chang of ROC who led and spoke for WHO, with her perfect university British English, galled the heck out of the PRC heads. They successfully infiltrated WHO to such an extent that as American virologist Dr Wen Chen noted when interviewed last Sunday evening on KRLA all 17 of the WHO 'experts' are either Red Chinese nationals or dependent on PRC funding for their labs. So perhaps you are right. 'Move along,, nothing to see here' is one approach and it may give comfort. Standing athwart history yelling 'stop' is another path. [1] His direct promise to deal with the Wuhan virus in the State of the Union on 4 February, after first among nations ban on inbound air from China in January, are ignored by this week's charge of 'didn't do anything'. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#179
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Wheels and tires
Tom Kunich wrote:
On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 5:53:31 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 4:29:50 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote: On 4/1/2020 12:10 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 11:53:15 AM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 10:48:53 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 08:00:19 +0700, John B wrote: The Economic Policy Institute (which is a privately funded 'think-tank') estimates that some 14 million jobs could be lost by summer 2020. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...sses-by-summer By states: California - Projected job loss:1,609,975 Washington - 317,721 Ohio - 505,380 Illinois - 551,061 and so on. -- cheers, I think those are likely underestimates by 50% or more. Not only millions of jobs but hundreds of thousands of businesses will go up in smoke. Mine might be one of them. Millions of people face eviction or foreclosure as they can't pay the rent or mortgage. The right-wing delusional alternative appears to be to pretend it's not a problem, do nothing, try to keep the economy purring along in the face of a couple of million US deaths and tens of milions of deaths worlwide. I guess that's an option, except the economy still collapses and probably much harder since the wealthy will throw everyone else under the bus to protect themselves. Manufacturing has largely collapsed. The hospitality industry has collapsed. Oil has collapsed. The housing market will collapse. Unfortunately the virus doesn't give a ****. Every human is susceptible, it seems that none are immune, and our best hope is to delay as many people from getting it as long as we can. And to surive more or less intact we bite the bullet. We replace incomes of people whose jobs have gone away so they can pay their rents and mortgages and have health insurance. Those of us who get to keep our jobs and benefits- like myself and my wife so far- practice gratitude rather than seeing it as people getting "something for nothing." We replace at least some of the revenue businesses have lost so they can pay their overhead and keep some of their employees on the payroll. Massive debt? Yep. Avoiding wholesale economic collapse might be expensive. And why the hell hasn't Donald Trump offered his hotels to be used as temporary hospitals, unlike some others? *That* would be leadership. Although knowing the Trump Organization they'd probably charge the US government full rate... I went through the numbers and came up with an estimate of 33,000 or so people that could possibly die from the effects of civid-19. At the moment we have lost less than 15% of that and in another couple of weeks warmer weather will come on and people that aren't fighting 100 other health problems will be more resistant. It is FAR more of a problem to lose your job than to be threatened with a relatively minor disease don't you think? No, not if you're infecting people who will die, or your customers are infecting people who will die. Do you not understand the reason why certain businesses have been closed? Remember that the larger part of the yearly 38,000 lives have been lost to the seasonal flu at this same time. Are you panicked because of the seasonal flu? People under 60 comprise less than 3% of the covid-19 deaths and the average age of death from covid-9 is 80 years old. In the US the average age of death from all other reasons is also 80 years old. (actually using the group that is dying it would be 79 years old because women who usually live longer are underrepresented.) What I'm saying is that the REAL threat isn't to the lives of American but to the economy. There is no reason to be running around in circles crying that the sky is falling. You, as an individual, have a much higher chance of dying in an auto accident. Despite all of the statistics that we now have a fairly tight hold on, we see resolute panic in people like Jay who I would really expect a great deal more of. Perhaps his health isn't all he says it is? Or as Winston Churchill said, "We have nothing to fear but fear itself." WTF? Winston Churchill? A fifth grader knows that was FDR. His first inaugural address. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, Winston Churchill said /everything/. Kept him pretty busy. Others subsequently copied him. I thought all of Usenet knew that. ... or am I thinking of Ben Franklin? Mark J. Well, according to the Wiki Page: Nothing to fear but fear itself may refer to: A phrase from the 1933 inaugural address of Franklin D. Roosevelt "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the television series The Golden Girls "Nothing to Fear (But Fear Itself)", a song by Oingo Boingo on the 1996 album Nothing to Fear "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the American-Canadian television series Painkiller Jane (TV series) "Nothing to fear but Fear Itself", an episode of the Canadian television series Class of the Titans Maybe I was thinking of the Oingo Boingo song. Or Francis Bacon, who actually said something different. Francis was a great orator. I remember him well. I mean really, "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" comes from FDR's speech. Most people don't know Francis Bacon from a bacon cheeseburger. And Churchill didn't say it. He said other great things, and some humorous things after Scotch number three at 10:00 AM. TK refuses to acknowledge FDR as a great leader because he was a communist Democrat. -- Jay Beattie. https://leadershipconfessions.typepa...ar-itself.html In truth, Franklin D. Roosevelt used the services of numerous speech writers, according to Dr. Buhite and David W. Levy in their book entitled FDR;s Fireside Chats, published by the University of Oklahoma Press, 1992. In the Buhite and Levy text, the authors lists speech writers as Harry Hopkins, Hugh Johnson, Raymond Moley, Rexford Tugwell, Benjamin Cohen, Thomas Corcoran, Donald Richberg, Adolf Berle and others. They list his WWII writers to include the famous Pulitizer Prize winners, poet-Librarian of Congress, Archibald MacLeish and Broadway playwrite Robert (Bob) Emmet Sherwood--(4 times a Pulitizer winner.) Now precisely who do you suppose would be able to steal a bit of Francis Lloyd Bacon - a poorly educated FDR with such strong communist leanings that he actually supported Stalin hence kept the US out of doing anything more than supporting Great Britain until Pearl Harbor made it clear that if you left Hitler go he would swallow the whole of Europe making him by far the strongest power in the world, or a few English majors educated in the classics? The argument was who said it, not who wrote it. |
#180
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Wheels and tires
On 4/2/2020 1:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/2/2020 11:02 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/1/2020 9:44 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 6:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/1/2020 6:52 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 4:50 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/1/2020 4:57 PM, AMuzi wrote: On 4/1/2020 2:41 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 1:30:33 PM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote: On Sun, 29 Mar 2020 19:31:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 3/29/2020 11:55 AM, AMuzi wrote: On 3/28/2020 5:36 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 18:59:10 -0500, AMuzi wrote: On 3/26/2020 3:23 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 09:23:43 +0700, John B wrote: As for "hair on fire"... hardly :-) "Hair on fire" is Fox Newsspeak for anyone saying they don't think Trump is the Greatest President in Human history, especially criticism based on what Trump actually says instead of what he and his supporters pretend he said. Covfefe! It was a perfect call! And you should believe Vladimir over American intelligence professionals, he only has our best interests at heart. I take no position as it's very early in this thing. Too early for an afternoon of tea and medals, too early to hang the inept. But I did note the hue and cry about 'fascism' when we were the first country to restrict travel from China in January. The concerns about fascism predated COVID-19 by several years. But the Chinese virus is actually real. I thought it was an Italian virus now. It's an American virus at this point.* Time to move on. I agree, but I'd go further. It's a worldwide virus now. There is no point in trying to tie it to a particular country. It is, indeed, time to move on. Time to move on. Right. Reminds one of Joseph Stalin, "Death solves problems. No man, no problem." Doctor Li Wenliang, unfortunately died in custody after first reporting the Chinese Wuhan virus. Police regret the incident in a rare public statement. Reporters Fang Bin and a bit better known Chen Qiushi reported on the Chinese Wuhan Virus. Conveniently missing. This week Dr Ai Fen another doctor who wrote about the Chinese Wuhan virus on social media has gone missing. There are others of course but you get the idea. Meanwhile in my paper today is an interesting chart labeled 'Confirmed Cases Per Country" and credited to 'Johns Hopkins CSSE' (behind a paywall and I could not find a chart link) For Italy, the arc is a bit less steep at the last week or so. ROK has dramatically shallower increase after 10 March. USA, Spain and UK show the familiar arc, like annual influenza charts we all know. What catches the eye, however statistically improbable, is that China reports the usual arc until 15 February after which it's a straight horizontal line through end-March. So you're probably right. Sorta like Tibet, eh? Nothing to see here, Winnie The Pooh says 'move along now'. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/112985...-toll-of-2500/ https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/8...mains-each-day https://www.newsweek.com/wuhan-covid...uggest-1494914 Can you specify the benefits of referring to this as "the Chinese virus" instead of the more common names used by medical professions - COVID-19, C19, novel corona virus, etc? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? What do you call Marburg virus now? I had to look that one up. Apparently Marburg was the name originally given, not a renaming, as you're trying to do with COVID-19. In fact, if your example were followed, Marburg would have been changed to "The Ugandan Virus." https://www.who.int/health-topics/ma...ase/#tab=tab_1 How about Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever? (asking for a friend) That too, seems to be the original name, not a changed name. But you haven't explained what you're trying to accomplish. Naming these for the earliest noted or first* described location has a very long useful descriptive history from Lyme CT to the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong in 1968. My reference to having survived Hong Kong flu is not racist toward Englishmen or The Queen in any way nor should it be considered such. Our country has a serious problem with unfounded charges of racism, a much more serious problem than a few residual throwbacks among the citizenry and nearly as serious as institutional racism such as Harvard's pride in denying admission to overqualified Asian Americans because, heck, that might screw up the black admissions rate. p.s. Famous Frozen Italian Guy (nicknamed Otzi, melted from an ice field recently) had Lyme disease. He was born about 5300 years ago. Yes, we visited Otzi some years ago. He's in a little museum in an out-of-the-way town, a quick stop on the railroad. (The museum staff were nice enough to watch our bikes carefully while we visited.) It was very interesting indeed. But every disease name example you've given has the disease _originally_ and commonly named after the place it was first observed. None of them involve re-naming a disease after a particular location after the medical community and the general populace have already settled on a different name. So why are you attempting to do this? What do you hope to gain? Suit yourself. ?? I was asking a question. -- - Frank Krygowski |
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