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  #381  
Old April 20th 17, 03:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On 2017-04-20 07:12, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 12:48:42 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-19 08:41,
wrote:

[...]


Enforcing speed limits would do far more to reduce fatalities
than putting HUGE amounts of money into bicycle paths which would
no doubt parallel freeways making cyclists gag on carbon
monoxide.


Folsom did it right, bike paths are totally segregated, no cars at
all. Like this:

http://www.foothill.com/wordpress/wp...keTrail_01.jpg



--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


But there simply isn't any room for completely separate facilities
for both cars and bikes in the same towns. Especially the older ones
that were originally designed only for horse and buggy. Folsom could
do it because they were making entirely new neighborhoods.


All the way from my village to Folsom there clearly is enough room.
Inside Folsom they even created bike paths in old sections of town where
I thought that was impossible, such as the section Rainbow Bridge to
Leidesdorff Street which lets you avoid cycling in the crawling traffic
on Riley Street. A long bike path from East Natoma Street to Blue Ravine
also goes through a neighborhood that was built well before they decided
to become a bike-friendly city.

I believe the key advantage they achieved was the buy-in of the resident
population. In hindsight that was no sacrifice at all for those
resident, it increased the value of their homes. In real estate listings
one sometimes reads "bike path connection".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #382  
Old April 20th 17, 04:01 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On 2017-04-19 19:52, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 07:04:46 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-18 20:04, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 09:49:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-18 08:08, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 10:46:18 AM UTC-4, Joerg
wrote: Snipped
That's what you have in Europe a lot, bad bike path
designs. In

the US
they are mostly better but incomplete, you have two miles
of bike

path
or lane because some grant mandated that, followed by ...

nothing. Then
some people react like Frank, saying that bike paths in
general are "nonsense". If all engineers thought that way
most inventions

would have
never happened and we'd be living like the Flintstones.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Wait a minute! You've been praising the European type
bicycle

infrastructure for ages here on RBT and now you're saying that a lot of
it is bad? Is that the same "a lot" as "a lot of bicyclists in the US
wil use new bicycle lanes" if only they are built?

Cheers


Hmm, seems like Thailand has changed a lot and is becoming like
the

US :-(

The Thai people I met during my life were very versed in
repairing stuff. There is a knock coming from the engine? Let's
take it apart and check.


I wasn't arguing that no Thais could fix things. Rather that the
great bulk of the Thais who could, for instance, afford a car
couldn't fix it, nor do they have any interest in learning how to
fix it. If you met Thais that could re-build an engine then you
met the "lower classes" who actually worked with their hands. Who
are, I'd reckon, becoming somewhat scarce.


Not so much "lower class" but older generation. The people who
could still get it done.


Nope. I and my wife are "older generation" and out contemporaries
aren't any more adapt than the young people. Less, in fact. The kids
are all on Twitter and Facebook and us old folk don't know how to do
that.


And then they say, "Hey, dad, I need a new motor bike because my old one
broke".

Twitter and Facebook are IMO rather useless when it comes to getting
stuff done.


For example, of my wife's immediate family, Starting with her
father and his two brothers, say a hundred people, some of whom
are very rich, some are collage professors, some are middle class
and some are poor as church mice, I doubt that a single one could
fix anything mechanical.


That is strange. My ancestors were middle class yet they could all
repair stuff, including many of the women. When there is an issue with
our watering system in the yard my wife often doesn't mention it to me.
Instead, I see her heading out the back door with a tool box.


Is your wife Thai?


No, from Europe. Just wondering why this should be so different with
Thais. The ones I met here do not shy away from repairs at all.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #383  
Old April 20th 17, 08:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On 4/19/2017 11:13 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:22:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

When speed
cameras are employed, they get slammed as "money generating scams" by
people who are obviously breaking the law.


If red-light cameras are not a money-generating scheme, why are the
people who install and maintain them paid a percentage of the take?


I was actually talking about speed cameras, but nonetheless:

I'd like it better if the jurisdictions bought, installed and maintained
the cameras. However, I assume that's not financially feasible. If it
were more profitable to do so, I think cities would be doing it.

They are always talking about photographing vehicles *in* in the
intersection, never about recording what color the light was when the
driver committed to entering.


According to
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...htmlstory.html
"C:The video camera records the vehicle moving through the intersection
with traffic light overhead, and a still camera takes a photo of the
license plate (the flash)."

I don't see shortening the yellow time as a way to reduce the number
of crashes in intersections, but it works a treat for increasing the
number of fines.


One of the closest calls I had on my motorcycle was when a couple of
young punks deliberately ran a red And it was not a "fresh red" it had
been red quite a while. I say they did it deliberately because as I
panic stopped, they were looking at me and laughing.

I have no sympathy for red light runners.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #384  
Old April 21st 17, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 07:50:21 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 4/19/2017 9:52 PM, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:22:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/19/2017 12:44 PM, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 8:54:17 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/19/2017 10:41 AM,
wrote:
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 12:01:30 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-04-17 11:41, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 4/16/2017 10:52 AM, Joerg wrote:
Yet only the Netherlands and Denmark kept a high cycling mode share
and some cities there even explanded on it. They had cars just like
the Germans but left them parked a lot. Because they built out the
bike infrastructure.

What do you say about places like Stevenage and Milton Keynes that built
the bike infrastructure but never saw any significant use of bikes?


That has been explained ad nauseam in various articles such as this one:

https://aseasyasridingabike.wordpres...milton-keynes/

The most important thing about roads is that it is necessary to have side roads that will go the same place as freeways. It may be a bit longer but they roads should have strictly enforced speed limits. In the East Bay we have Niles Canyon. This is a narrow 2 lane road with relatively long sections where bicycles have no shoulder at all. They also have 2 narrow bridges and at least one narrow railroad overpass. The speed limit? 50 mph and not enforced at all so that the traffic moves a minimum of 60 mph and often up to 80 mph.

Rather than bicycle paths where you cannot put them the speed limit in this canyon should have been no more than 40 mph as is shown by common car accidents with cars glancing off of the cliff-side and going into the river. And it should be STRICTLY enforced. Even the CHP drive through this canyon well over the limit rather than ticketing speeders.

When riding up to Sacramento on back-roads well away from the freeway system you will find drivers doing well over freeway speed limits on these tiny little roads.

Enforcing speed limits would do far more to reduce fatalities than putting HUGE amounts of money into bicycle paths which would no doubt parallel freeways making cyclists gag on carbon monoxide.


If you seek a legal solution, just require all motor
vehicles to stay on private property. Safety! Think of the
children!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I think that what you're saying is that the car is king and you should be allowed to drive at any speed you judge to be safe for you and to hell with other road users.

Speeding is a tough problem to solve. Obviously, a significant portion
of the driving population thinks speed limits mean nothing. When speed
cameras are employed, they get slammed as "money generating scams" by
people who are obviously breaking the law. (But if someone were caught
on security camera breaking into their car, they wouldn't think that was
a money generating scam.)

They object to cameras even in places like school zones with kids
walking. People will zoom through our 25 mph neighborhood at near 40
mph because, hey, they're in a hurry! (As if being late for the
beginning of Ophrah justifies tearing up the neighborhood.) And using a
residential street as a cut-through to avoid 30 seconds at a light? No
contest! Residents who object are mocked, because you can't keep people
off a public way.

There are various "traffic calming" techniques that can be used, but
they too get slammed, almost as if permission to speed were guaranteed
by the Bill of Rights.

You can pay to put patrol cars almost permanently shooting radar. But
then places like our little town get listed as speed traps on some
websites. Why? Because people get tickets for doing over 30 mph in the
25 zones that are specified by state law - the poor dears.

Phil Lee has pointed out that we're on the cusp of having technology to
really enforce speed laws. But I can't imagine the howls if people are
actually unable to break the law as they see fit.


I think I wrote something about "if you have laws enforce them, or
revoke them" and got shouted down, but it is true. Singapore has
proved it. If you sell dope they hang you and Singapore has the lowest
drug use in the world. If you spit on the street the fine you S$1,000.
Guess what, people don't spit on the street.

The Usians argue about cruel and unusual punishment (Hey! I was only
doing 10 mph over the limit) but my experience has been that where
there are fixed limits and know penalties for exceeding these limits
that it becomes simply a fact of life and nobody complains. When I was
in the military, for example, if you came to work late you would be
punished. No one sat around bitching about how cruel the Commander
were.

The U.S. presidential election methods date back to the original
Constitution. It is cut and dried and has been used to elect about 40
people (more or less) to that office.

So what happens? They elect Trump and people parade in protest.



"The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it
strictly."
Abraham Lincoln



Perhaps :-)

The State of New Hampshire, way back in the 1950's, started on a plan
to review all state laws and revoke all that were either no longer
useful or not in accordance with current usage. I remember that under
the original laws store were closed on Sunday. Under the reviewed laws
they were allowed to open.

It doesn't sound like much until you wake up Sunday morning and you
smoked your last ciggie Saturday night :-)

  #385  
Old April 21st 17, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:01:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-19 19:52, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 07:04:46 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-18 20:04, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 09:49:40 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-18 08:08, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 10:46:18 AM UTC-4, Joerg
wrote: Snipped
That's what you have in Europe a lot, bad bike path
designs. In

the US
they are mostly better but incomplete, you have two miles
of bike

path
or lane because some grant mandated that, followed by ...

nothing. Then
some people react like Frank, saying that bike paths in
general are "nonsense". If all engineers thought that way
most inventions

would have
never happened and we'd be living like the Flintstones.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Wait a minute! You've been praising the European type
bicycle

infrastructure for ages here on RBT and now you're saying that a lot of
it is bad? Is that the same "a lot" as "a lot of bicyclists in the US
wil use new bicycle lanes" if only they are built?

Cheers


Hmm, seems like Thailand has changed a lot and is becoming like
the

US :-(

The Thai people I met during my life were very versed in
repairing stuff. There is a knock coming from the engine? Let's
take it apart and check.


I wasn't arguing that no Thais could fix things. Rather that the
great bulk of the Thais who could, for instance, afford a car
couldn't fix it, nor do they have any interest in learning how to
fix it. If you met Thais that could re-build an engine then you
met the "lower classes" who actually worked with their hands. Who
are, I'd reckon, becoming somewhat scarce.


Not so much "lower class" but older generation. The people who
could still get it done.


Nope. I and my wife are "older generation" and out contemporaries
aren't any more adapt than the young people. Less, in fact. The kids
are all on Twitter and Facebook and us old folk don't know how to do
that.


And then they say, "Hey, dad, I need a new motor bike because my old one
broke".

Twitter and Facebook are IMO rather useless when it comes to getting
stuff done.


For example, of my wife's immediate family, Starting with her
father and his two brothers, say a hundred people, some of whom
are very rich, some are collage professors, some are middle class
and some are poor as church mice, I doubt that a single one could
fix anything mechanical.


That is strange. My ancestors were middle class yet they could all
repair stuff, including many of the women. When there is an issue with
our watering system in the yard my wife often doesn't mention it to me.
Instead, I see her heading out the back door with a tool box.


Is your wife Thai?


No, from Europe. Just wondering why this should be so different with
Thais. The ones I met here do not shy away from repairs at all.


In short "face". People who are someone do not get their hands dirty,
they hire others to do that.

The Asian term "face" is a direct translation from most of the local
languages and sounds a bit strange to Westerners so in the West it is
referred to a "preeminence".
  #386  
Old April 21st 17, 04:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:36:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/19/2017 11:13 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:22:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

When speed
cameras are employed, they get slammed as "money generating scams" by
people who are obviously breaking the law.


If red-light cameras are not a money-generating scheme, why are the
people who install and maintain them paid a percentage of the take?


I was actually talking about speed cameras, but nonetheless:

I'd like it better if the jurisdictions bought, installed and maintained
the cameras. However, I assume that's not financially feasible. If it
were more profitable to do so, I think cities would be doing it.

They are always talking about photographing vehicles *in* in the
intersection, never about recording what color the light was when the
driver committed to entering.


According to
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...htmlstory.html
"C:The video camera records the vehicle moving through the intersection
with traffic light overhead, and a still camera takes a photo of the
license plate (the flash)."

I don't see shortening the yellow time as a way to reduce the number
of crashes in intersections, but it works a treat for increasing the
number of fines.


One of the closest calls I had on my motorcycle was when a couple of
young punks deliberately ran a red And it was not a "fresh red" it had
been red quite a while. I say they did it deliberately because as I
panic stopped, they were looking at me and laughing.

I have no sympathy for red light runners.


In Western Australia - perhaps all of Australia - they have "speed
Cameras" set up way out in the country. They are linked with some sort
of radar so that they take a picture of any car exceeding the speed
limit. This is somehow processed by computer and a notice is mailed to
you advising you that you have been fined and to come and pay.

A friend's daughter works as clerical help in the Perth police station
and I asked her whether you could demand a trial rather than just pay
the ticket and she thought that yes, you could elect a trial but the
photo was considered prima facie proof of guilt.
  #387  
Old April 21st 17, 03:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On 2017-04-20 20:21, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 08:01:21 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-19 19:52, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 07:04:46 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-04-18 20:04, John B Slocomb wrote:


[...]

For example, of my wife's immediate family, Starting with her
father and his two brothers, say a hundred people, some of whom
are very rich, some are collage professors, some are middle class
and some are poor as church mice, I doubt that a single one could
fix anything mechanical.


That is strange. My ancestors were middle class yet they could all
repair stuff, including many of the women. When there is an issue with
our watering system in the yard my wife often doesn't mention it to me.
Instead, I see her heading out the back door with a tool box.

Is your wife Thai?


No, from Europe. Just wondering why this should be so different with
Thais. The ones I met here do not shy away from repairs at all.


In short "face". People who are someone do not get their hands dirty,
they hire others to do that.

The Asian term "face" is a direct translation from most of the local
languages and sounds a bit strange to Westerners so in the West it is
referred to a "preeminence".


That isn't much different here in the Wild West. He who has the dough,
and a Mercedes Benz in the driveway, and a McMansion, and a 60" 4k TV,
hires out everything. At least until the repo man shows up in the night.

Then there are those who feel pride in accomplishing something with
their own hands even if they are engineers, doctors or whatever. Mostly
those who were brought up in that philosophy. Those are also the people
who do not become stuck in the wilderness because their ride broke down
and there is no cell signal for the next 100 miles or so. I have met a
lot of well-to-do Asians like that as well. Most impressive are usually
Russians. No matter how wealthy, when something breaks they often react
like "Let's take apart and fix".

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #388  
Old April 21st 17, 03:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,016
Default Habanero shows up curved stays

On 2017-04-20 20:21, John B Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:36:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 4/19/2017 11:13 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:22:27 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

When speed
cameras are employed, they get slammed as "money generating scams" by
people who are obviously breaking the law.

If red-light cameras are not a money-generating scheme, why are the
people who install and maintain them paid a percentage of the take?


I was actually talking about speed cameras, but nonetheless:

I'd like it better if the jurisdictions bought, installed and maintained
the cameras. However, I assume that's not financially feasible. If it
were more profitable to do so, I think cities would be doing it.

They are always talking about photographing vehicles *in* in the
intersection, never about recording what color the light was when the
driver committed to entering.


According to
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/c...htmlstory.html
"C:The video camera records the vehicle moving through the intersection
with traffic light overhead, and a still camera takes a photo of the
license plate (the flash)."

I don't see shortening the yellow time as a way to reduce the number
of crashes in intersections, but it works a treat for increasing the
number of fines.


One of the closest calls I had on my motorcycle was when a couple of
young punks deliberately ran a red And it was not a "fresh red" it had
been red quite a while. I say they did it deliberately because as I
panic stopped, they were looking at me and laughing.

I have no sympathy for red light runners.


In Western Australia - perhaps all of Australia - they have "speed
Cameras" set up way out in the country. They are linked with some sort
of radar so that they take a picture of any car exceeding the speed
limit. This is somehow processed by computer and a notice is mailed to
you advising you that you have been fined and to come and pay.

A friend's daughter works as clerical help in the Perth police station
and I asked her whether you could demand a trial rather than just pay
the ticket and she thought that yes, you could elect a trial but the
photo was considered prima facie proof of guilt.


In Germany they take an automatic photo from the front, showing the
driver's face. That is next to impossible to fight in court. It can also
have other consequences when that letter arrives and the wife opens it.
"WHO is that WOMAN in the passenger seat?!"

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
 




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