Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On May 18, 10:53*am, Peter Cole wrote:
On 5/18/2011 10:29 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

On 18 mei, 14:47, Peter *wrote:

It still functions as a "tool-less" release, which is fine. LL's are
easily removed, not so easily added. I'm fine with them.

I'm not. Would you dremel/file the LL from a fork with carbon
dropouts? LL and QR are a stupid combination period.

Lou

I don't think I'd use carbon dropouts, or anything but steel, for that
matter. If I did, I don't suppose that filing off the lip would make
much difference.

I don't remove LL's, I don't find them to be much of a burden, spinning
the skewer a couple of times only takes a few seconds.

Yah, what's the fuss. Takes about ten seconds tops. A lot less time
than getting out a peanut butter wrench and tightening two nuts, plus
you don't have to lug around a wrench.

If you're racing and need a quick wheel change, well, they're a little
slow, but in an amateur race, its not as though ten seconds is going
to make much of a difference. You're going to have to adjust the QR
on the generic wheel from a neutral support car or wait for your car
to arrive -- and then because you are an amateur, you are probably not
going to catch up anyway. Alternately, you can file off the ridges.
People do file them off CF drop outs -- but then people do a lot of
questionable things. -- Jay Beattie.

Op 18-5-2011 20:08, Jay Beattie schreef:
On May 18, 10:53 am, Peter wrote:
On 5/18/2011 10:29 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

On 18 mei, 14:47, Peter wrote:

It still functions as a "tool-less" release, which is fine. LL's are
easily removed, not so easily added. I'm fine with them.

I'm not. Would you dremel/file the LL from a fork with carbon
dropouts? LL and QR are a stupid combination period.

Lou

I don't think I'd use carbon dropouts, or anything but steel, for that
matter. If I did, I don't suppose that filing off the lip would make
much difference.

I don't remove LL's, I don't find them to be much of a burden, spinning
the skewer a couple of times only takes a few seconds.

Yah, what's the fuss. Takes about ten seconds tops. A lot less time
than getting out a peanut butter wrench and tightening two nuts, plus
you don't have to lug around a wrench.

It is not the time it costs to remove the wheel. It is about the fact
that you have to adjust the QR again when you putting the wheel back in
again. Because some dumb people who are not able to do is the reason why
we are stuck with LL. What a concept...

Lou

On 5/18/2011 11:35 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Because some dumb people who are not able to do is the reason why
we are stuck with LL.

That's not the reason. But of course you already knew that.

Op 18-5-2011 21:02, SMS schreef:
On 5/18/2011 11:35 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Because some dumb people who are not able to do is the reason why
we are stuck with LL.

That's not the reason. But of course you already knew that.


Tell me..

Lou

On 5/18/2011 12:22 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 18-5-2011 21:02, SMS schreef:
On 5/18/2011 11:35 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Because some dumb people who are not able to do is the reason why
we are stuck with LL.

That's not the reason. But of course you already knew that.


Tell me..

Lou

It was already mentioned in this thread.

The reason we are stuck with them is because of a) wheel ejection caused
by disc brakes, b) wheels falling off not because of the owner failing
to properly use the QR but because someone else, either accidentally or
on purpose did not secure the QR properly.

Secondary systems are used in a plethora of products where failure of
the primary system could result in serious injury.

And of course we're not really "stuck" with them. People remove them if
they don't like them. Other than the rare case of CF dropouts, it's not
a problem to remove them. Very few carbon fiber forks have carbon fiber
dropouts at all, and of those that do few lack some sort of metal over
the carbon fiber, but yes, in the rare case of carbon-fiber dropouts,
removing the secondary retention system might not be the greatest idea.

On May 18, 2:08*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

If you're racing and need a quick wheel change, well, they're a little
slow, but in an amateur race, its not as though ten seconds is going
to make much of a difference.

Whoa! That's been called heresy around here! ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

On May 18, 3:51*pm, SMS wrote:
On 5/18/2011 12:22 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Op 18-5-2011 21:02, SMS schreef:
On 5/18/2011 11:35 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:

Because some dumb people who are not able to do is the reason why
we are stuck with LL.

That's not the reason. But of course you already knew that.

Tell me..

Lou

It was already mentioned in this thread.

The reason we are stuck with them is because of a) wheel ejection caused
by disc brakes, b) wheels falling off not because of the owner failing
to properly use the QR but because someone else, either accidentally or
on purpose did not secure the QR properly.

Bull****, as usual. Lawyer lips predate front disk brakes. And I've
stopped riders and taught them how to use quick releases, when I saw
theirs were used backwards, i.e. just spun into place with the clamp
open.

One of those incidents involved a Professor of English. He was a bit
amazed and very grateful. (It proved to me that mechanical aptitude
is not a qualification for multiple degrees in English.)

- Frank Krygowski

On May 18, 1:19*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On May 18, 2:08*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:



If you're racing and need a quick wheel change, well, they're a little
slow, but in an amateur race, its not as though ten seconds is going
to make much of a difference.

Whoa! *That's been called heresy around here! *;-)

I should say it doesn't matter if you're already off the back with a
flat tire waiting for a spare wheel. And maybe that is wrong for a
really, really strong cyclist.

For me, if I got a wheel from neutral support, it was usually a rear
wheel with some funky freewheel/cassette that skipped, and I was lucky
to finish the race. If it was my own wheel, then I had to dig it out
from all the other wheels in the follow car -- the process was never
fast. Ten seconds mattered only in determining which grupetto I would
be in. On criteriums with free laps, though, a wheel change is do-
able without significant penalty. I never flatted in a crit though --
always in some road race in the middle of nowhere -- once with no
support (and no spare). I sat in the middle of nowhere outside
Medford with a corner marshal until the course closed down (3 25-mile
laps around a hilly circuit -- I flatted lap two). -- Jay Beattie.

Chalo wrote:
john B. wrote:
But do you need to put little yellow stickers on the forks, pointing
at the drop-outs, saying "failure to tighten this may result in loss
of wheel"?

It would seem to me that there must be a case for protection against
people attempting to operate something that they are not qualified to
operate.
Rather like practicing medicine without a license.

I have often thought that there should be an operator's license for
bicycles. Just so that folks would have to demonstrate ability to fix
a flat and oil their chain before they get one, and so they could lose
it for riding a brakeless fixie on the street, or for using white cork
handlebar tape.

Most people who have them do not need QR skewers, or drop bars, or
clipless pedals, or chain tugs, or a host of other things. Having
skills tests associated with such items might help discourage their
frivolous use.

Chalo

That's silly.

Would I have to prove I'm illiterate before buying a
television? Give a blood sample for a glucose level test
before buying candy?

People want things for often complex and obscure reasons
(which even the buyer may not fully grasp) and that's fine
with me.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

john B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 May 2011 01:40:46 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

john B. wrote:
But do you need to put little yellow stickers on the forks, pointing
at the drop-outs, saying "failure to tighten this may result in loss
of wheel"?

It would seem to me that there must be a case for protection against
people attempting to operate something that they are not qualified to
operate.
Rather like practicing medicine without a license.
I have often thought that there should be an operator's license for
bicycles. Just so that folks would have to demonstrate ability to fix
a flat and oil their chain before they get one, and so they could lose
it for riding a brakeless fixie on the street, or for using white cork
handlebar tape.

Most people who have them do not need QR skewers, or drop bars, or
clipless pedals, or chain tugs, or a host of other things. Having
skills tests associated with such items might help discourage their
frivolous use.

Chalo


Brakeless fixie? I used to ride a brakeless coaster brake. (But one
should be wearing shoe before putting one's toe on the front wheel).


We just did a fork alignment for a young girl who couldn't
quite manage that. Her foot was still various shades of blue.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971