Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On 5/22/2011 12:10 PM, Jay Beattie wrote:
On May 22, 8:42 am, Tºm Shermªn™ °_°""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 5/22/2011 1:11 AM, Lou Holtman wrote:
[...]
Agree. Take your time when drinking a cup aof coffee. Sit down and take
a break. Drinking coffee while driving or worse cycling is ridiculous.
Ever seen Italians drink their cappucino or espresso in a cardboard cup
with a lid while driving?

Gawd-fearin' Americans can drink coffee, drive, and talk on a mobile
phone at the same time. You must be some kinda commie.

Really, I don't see the problem with sipping from my SS thermos cup
while driving up to go skiing -- so long as I've got good traction and
at least one hand on the wheel. http://www.flickr.com/photos/oregondot/2948248012/
Gotta watch for the plows, though. -- Jay Beattie.

I often use a CamelBak to drink from on longer driving trips. In urban
areas, drinking while waiting at red lights is often practical.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Op 21-5-2011 10:29, Chalo schreef:
I don't pour my coffee at upwards of 180F, even though I make it
myself.

Lou Holtman wrote:
Beside the legal issues who:
- who wants to drink a cup of coffee in a cardboard/styrofoam cup? Any
coffee will taste terrible,
- who wants to drink coffee in a cup with a lid? Any coffee will taste
terrible,
- who wants to drink coffee while driving?
At some time the number of cupholders became a selling point for a car
here in Europe. I never understood that. Thank god that is over now.
At my first visit to the US it took me a while before I understood what
they meant by 'to go sir?'.

Lou, I'm with you on all that.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Op 22-5-2011 20:58, AMuzi schreef:
Op 21-5-2011 10:29, Chalo schreef:
I don't pour my coffee at upwards of 180F, even though I make it
myself.

Lou Holtman wrote:
Beside the legal issues who:
- who wants to drink a cup of coffee in a cardboard/styrofoam cup? Any
coffee will taste terrible,
- who wants to drink coffee in a cup with a lid? Any coffee will taste
terrible,
- who wants to drink coffee while driving?
At some time the number of cupholders became a selling point for a car
here in Europe. I never understood that. Thank god that is over now.
At my first visit to the US it took me a while before I understood
what they meant by 'to go sir?'.

Lou, I'm with you on all that.


Thank god there is hope..;-)

Lou

Pete Cresswell wrote:

Per Chalo:

It's also like they never sampled delicious cold brewed coffee that
never even reached room temperature during steeping, yet contains
subtle flavors that even the freshest hot brewed coffee does not.

Never thought of brewing the stuff cold.

Gotta give it a try.

How long does it need to sit? * Hours? *Days?

Brew in the fridge all day or all night-- six to ten hours. Cold
brewed coffee packs a big hit of caffeine and flavor, but doesn't
irritate the stomach like normal coffee. Beware.

Chalo

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On May 21, 10:04 pm, jcdill wrote:
On 21/05/11 5:42 PM, john B. wrote:

Well that is good thinking from one side of the fence. On the other
hand there is really no evidence that the coffee was faulty nor is
there any evidence that the 700 who complained were severely burned.
They admitted it in court.

Oh come on. What almost certainly happened was that _one_ McDonalds
representative was backed into a corner by a skillful or lucky lawyer
in an antagonistic cross examination.

You keep ignoring my tea. Is it also unfit for human consumption?
Why have millions of people made tea for thousands of years by using
boiling water, without generating millions of lawsuits? Should we
declare anything but "sun tea" (steeped for hours at room temperature)
dangerous and illegal? Should I sue Bigelow for lack of a warning on
their packaging?


I don't know anything about this, but I have to say this
thread has been a learning experience. In a social sense.

I drink several espressos every day, made with steam through
powdered coffee straight in to a ceramic cup with a saucer
and nary a problem. I can't imagine drinking coffee while in
a moving vehicle but apparently that has some appeal despite
obvious risks such as driver distraction. How might one
downshift into a fast corner with liquid in the car?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Lou Holtman wrote:
Op 22-5-2011 2:42, john B. schreef:


The smell (and therefore the taste) of coffee depends heavily on the
oils containing aromatic compounds that are dissolved out of the beans
during the brewing process. Brewing temperature should be close to 200
deg. F. to dissolve them effectively, but without causing the
premature breakdown of these delicate molecules. Coffee smells and
tastes best when these aromatic compounds evaporate from the surface
of the coffee as it is being drunk.

Exactly. That is why coffee taste awful when drunk out of a cup with a lid.

Compounds vital to flavor have
boiling points in the range of 150 - 160 deg. F., and the beverage
therefore tastes best when it is this hot and the aromatics vaporize
as it is being drunk. For coffee to be 150 deg. F. when imbibed, it
must be hotter in the pot. Pouring a liquid increases its surface area
and cools it; more heat is lost by contact with the cooler container;
if the consumer adds cream and sugar (plus a metal spoon to stir them)
the liquid's temperature falls again. If the consumer carries the
container out for later consumption, the beverage cools still further.

Agree. Take your time when drinking a cup aof coffee. Sit down and take
a break. Drinking coffee while driving or worse cycling is ridiculous.
Ever seen Italians drink their cappucino or espresso in a cardboard cup
with a lid while driving?


Thank you for a little breath of civilization.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 5/22/2011 1:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I drink several espressos every day, made with steam through powdered
coffee straight in to a ceramic cup with a saucer and nary a problem. I
can't imagine drinking coffee while in a moving vehicle but apparently
that has some appeal despite obvious risks such as driver distraction.
How might one downshift into a fast corner with liquid in the car?


Put it in a Styrofoam cup and hold it with your crotch.

On 5/22/2011 3:40 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On May 21, 10:04 pm, jcdill wrote:
On 21/05/11 5:42 PM, john B. wrote:

Well that is good thinking from one side of the fence. On the other
hand there is really no evidence that the coffee was faulty nor is
there any evidence that the 700 who complained were severely burned.
They admitted it in court.

Oh come on. What almost certainly happened was that _one_ McDonalds
representative was backed into a corner by a skillful or lucky lawyer
in an antagonistic cross examination.

You keep ignoring my tea. Is it also unfit for human consumption?
Why have millions of people made tea for thousands of years by using
boiling water, without generating millions of lawsuits? Should we
declare anything but "sun tea" (steeped for hours at room temperature)
dangerous and illegal? Should I sue Bigelow for lack of a warning on
their packaging?


I don't know anything about this, but I have to say this thread has been
a learning experience. In a social sense.

I drink several espressos every day, made with steam through powdered
coffee straight in to a ceramic cup with a saucer and nary a problem. I
can't imagine drinking coffee while in a moving vehicle but apparently
that has some appeal despite obvious risks such as driver distraction.

Even on a train? [1]

How might one downshift into a fast corner with liquid in the car?

CamelBak secured with bungee cords. Common in endurance racing.

[1] Watch out for idiots dumping coffee out the window ahead of you. [2]
[2] Happened while heading westwards into Jutland (I ducked in time).

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

jcdill wrote:
On 22/05/11 5:31 AM, john B. wrote:

Nope. I was asking where your statement that 150 - 165 are "normal
Temperature" for coffee came from?

It was mentioned in court, but I can't find the page that said it so I
can't quote the exact number or cite the page. If I find it again, I'll
post the URL.

This was part of why Stella won - it was established that McDonald's
sold their coffee at a temperature higher than the other restaurants in
the area and higher than the industry standard.

The other reason that Stella won was that McDonald's admitted that they
knew their coffee caused serious burns and that they took absolutely no
measures to reduce the number of injuries. They didn't print a warning
on the front or top of the cup (a warning on the bottom of the cup can't
possibly warn you *prior* to consuming the coffee that it could cause
serious burns), they didn't make any changes in the type of cup or lid
to reduce the chances that the cup would collapse and spill when
removing the lid, etc. If you have a product that is injuring your
customers and you make *no* efforts to warn them or to change the
product to reduce injuries, you will be held accountable for the
injuries the product causes. Which brings us back to bikes, and the
reason bike shops have customers sign waivers - it's proof that
customers were warned about the dangers of riding a bike.

Are you aware of some industry standard, matter of law, or other
reputable authority, that supports your assertion?

The standard then, and what can be found on the internet now, are two
different things. The coffee association has flooded the internet with
their propaganda. This makes it very difficult to determine (outside of
the court record of this lawsuit) what the industry standard was at that
time.

In the late 1970s I worked as a waitress at a coffee shop. The holding
burners for our coffee brewer were programmed to hold the coffee at
~170. This was a coffee shop attached to a truck stop, we were expected
to serve HOT coffee, and we sold a lot of it.

About 10 years ago I was a secret shopper for Starbucks - I drove around
to dozens of Starbucks locations and measured the length of time to
order, to get the drink, the weight and temperature of the drink, how
clean the store and bathrooms were, etc. Immediately after being served
the drink (usually I was assigned to buy a latte) I took it to my car
and measured the temperature. IIRC it was supposed to be served at
140-150 degrees, which IMHO was low - when I make it at home I steam the
milk to 165 and the espresso is brewed at 200. Now, admittedly a cafe
latte is not the same as a black brewed coffee, but I do have direct
experience with actually measuring the temperature of coffee as sold to
a customer.

Do YOU have any actual real-world experience with measuring the
temperature of coffee served by restaurants?


I don't know but have you considered that some tens of
millions of people repeatedly went back for more ?

If it wasn't selling well, the product, price, temperature
or content (or all) would have changed anyway.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Per AMuzi:
I can't imagine drinking coffee while in
a moving vehicle but apparently that has some appeal despite
obvious risks

One of the local TV personalities, when commenting on especially
heavy commuter traffic has been heard to say: "... and be sure
not to order the large coffee...."
--
PeteCresswell