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#21
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
On Apr 26, 4:57 pm, Shane Stanley
wrote: In article , rooman wrote: It is also used by many commuters, who IMO ride too fast (and seriously)should be using the roadway. Not just commuters. I daily see commuters and some recreational riders fairly hammering along this path. Yep. As it happens, I was riding along the path just the other side of Ricketts Point on Anzac Day. It was only the second time I'd ridden along it -- I ride Beach Road regularly, but I was with my wife, who travels at a somewhat sedate pace. I was actually thinking how most of the people seemed to be going much more slowly than normal, or at least there were very few people going at more than a very leisurely pace. There were lots of family groups with young kids. Hardly what I'd call bumper to bumper, though. But it is easy to get up a bit of speed down those dips, and quite a few people don't seem to have complete control. I'm very nervous about the exits from the carpark near Ricketts Point -- the bushes next to the path make it very hard for drivers leaving to see even a slow cyclist coming. Having said that, I find it hard to think anyone would label the path unsafe. Yes, it could be safer, but short of ripping out the foreshore, widening it massively and putting in overpasses and barriers, it's always going to need some care, and there are always going to be mishaps. It's a case of riding to the conditions. When riding on shared paths (and all paths are shared, either by design or otherwise, there's always going to be joggers, dogs, people who don't know/care etc) you have to ride within your limits of vision and control. But the one you saw sounds truly awful... Sure does, but also her fault. She went faster than she could safely handle under the conditions. All she needed to do was use her brakes on the descent to keep her speed down (assuming no brake failure occurred) Paths are only as safe as the people who choose to use them make them. Same as the road, really.... |
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#22
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
EuanB wrote:
OK, I'll spell out once more my idea of a safe bike path. Exclusive to cyclists. One way. Priority over all other traffic at intersctions, including pedestrians. Well surfaced, surface to be at least 3 meters wide. Width of path to be at least five meters to allow good sight lines. What about another three meters for a passing lane? Why not just bitumenise the planet? Theo Not sure the lanes on our local roads are three metres wide. |
#23
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
In aus.bicycle on 26 Apr 2007 15:13:33 -0700
Bleve wrote: Sure does, but also her fault. She went faster than she could safely handle under the conditions. All she needed to do was use her brakes on the descent to keep her speed down (assuming no brake failure occurred) The key seems to have been the sun in eyes. That should have been a pointer to slow down. But the idea that the road ahead is the same as the road right here is a common cause of crashes. The idea of a bike path suddenly veering because of an obstacle, or maybe worse not veering, is admittedly not sensible and so perhaps not predictable to an inexperienced cyclist used to car-based road design, but then as the "Cycling Facility of the Month" pages show, it's distressingly common. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.me...onth/index.htm Zebee |
#24
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
In aus.bicycle on Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:07:30 +0800
Theo Bekkers wrote: EuanB wrote: OK, I'll spell out once more my idea of a safe bike path. Exclusive to cyclists. One way. Priority over all other traffic at intersctions, including pedestrians. Well surfaced, surface to be at least 3 meters wide. Width of path to be at least five meters to allow good sight lines. What about another three meters for a passing lane? Why not just bitumenise the planet? Nah, just hand over the roads currently used by cars to bicycles. OK, the city as we know it will disappear but on the other hand it will stop those pesky mountain bikers playing silly buggers in areas they can't ride to and completely remove questions about bike racks on cars, so that's something. Zebee |
#25
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
On Apr 27, 9:07 am, "Theo Bekkers" wrote:
EuanB wrote: OK, I'll spell out once more my idea of a safe bike path. Exclusive to cyclists. One way. Priority over all other traffic at intersctions, including pedestrians. Well surfaced, surface to be at least 3 meters wide. Width of path to be at least five meters to allow good sight lines. What about another three meters for a passing lane? Why not just bitumenise the planet? Which is why good bike paths will not happen. Space is at a premium in urban areas so for decent bike paths to happen antoher demographic will have to lose out; that's unlikely to happen which is why learning to share the road with other road users is the way to go (shared space etc). It may be feasible for inter-state roads however. Not sure the lanes on our local roads are three metres wide. I very much doubt they are, they certainly aren't in Melbourne. Please don't confuse what I consider to be a good bike path with what I want or expect to happen. -- Cheers Euan |
#26
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
On Apr 27, 9:21 am, Zebee Johnstone wrote:
In aus.bicycle on 26 Apr 2007 15:13:33 -0700 Bleve wrote: Sure does, but also her fault. She went faster than she could safely handle under the conditions. All she needed to do was use her brakes on the descent to keep her speed down (assuming no brake failure occurred) The key seems to have been the sun in eyes. That should have been a pointer to slow down. But the idea that the road ahead is the same as the road right here is a common cause of crashes. The idea of a bike path suddenly veering because of an obstacle, or maybe worse not veering, is admittedly not sensible and so perhaps not predictable to an inexperienced cyclist used to car-based road design, but then as the "Cycling Facility of the Month" pages show, it's distressingly common. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.me...he-month/index... Zebee I only use bike paths when I'm in a mood to go slowly, smell the roses, and take my time. Otherwise I ride on the road. If I'm in a hurry I take a train, or very occasionally drive a car. Many times I ride on bike paths I'm stunned by the speed at which people ride on them. To me, they are going way too fast, leaving absolutely no margin for error at all. Reminiscent of the way a lot of car drivers drive their cars. It seems to me that most bike paths are unsafe at greater than 20km/ hr. |
#27
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
But the idea that the road ahead is the same as the road right here is a common cause of crashes. The idea of a bike path suddenly veering because of an obstacle, or maybe worse not veering, is admittedly not sensible and so perhaps not predictable to an inexperienced cyclist used to car-based road design, but then as the "Cycling Facility of the Month" pages show, it's distressingly common. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.me...onth/index.htm One for 'bents. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/pete.me...th/May2003.htm Theo |
#28
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
In aus.bicycle on 26 Apr 2007 16:38:11 -0700
AndrewJ wrote: I only use bike paths when I'm in a mood to go slowly, smell the roses, and take my time. Otherwise I ride on the road. If I'm in a hurry I take a train, or very occasionally drive a car. I use the Cooks River path to get to a shopping area I use, and sometimes to get to work when I am heading to Alexandria. When we move to North Ryde, I'll be using paths to get to work for about 75% of the trip. Cos they are flat and I'm a real wimp! It seems to me that most bike paths are unsafe at greater than 20km/ hr. I don't usually do much more than that on the path. 25 is about my usual speed unless there's people about or it's horribly bumpy. If there's lots of bodies such as a Saturday afternoon I'll slow down because that's only sensible but if there's no one about I'll go as fast as I feel like which usually isn't that fast. With seriously shared areas like Pyrmont Bridge I tend to 15-20 and figure that's fast enough to safely dodge peds who can't walk straight[1] but I'm one of the slow cyclists there... Zebee [1] most people seem to have a buffer zone, they'll move until they have lots of room around them. So they'll drift across as soon as they can, then drift back if the space on one side is getting tight. Judging a particular ped's personal space and tendency to do this can get interesting. |
#29
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
In article .com,
EuanB wrote: OK, I'll spell out once more my idea of a safe bike path. Exclusive to cyclists. One way. Priority over all other traffic at intersctions, including pedestrians. Well surfaced, surface to be at least 3 meters wide. Width of path to be at least five meters to allow good sight lines. So if we banned cars tomorrow, and turned all the roads over to cyclists only, most of them would be unsafe for cyclists. Interesting. -- Shane Stanley |
#30
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Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd
In article .com,
Bleve wrote: It's a case of riding to the conditions. For sure. But I think an argument can be made that bike paths like the one along the foreshore, because they're used by so many inexperienced and/or irregular cyclists, need more attention in terms of safe design. That doesn't mean they can be made foolproof, it simply means designing and maintaining them with typical users in mind. -- Shane Stanley |
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