Driver admits killing Marine cyclist

Kyle Legate wrote:

Wayne Pein wrote:



I'm an absolutist in that I believe it is my lane space. Most of the
time I graciously let motorists use it to pass me. Other times I
don't, and I don't have to justify why.

And when you get tagged by a rear view mirror for ****ing a driver off
by using more lane than you need, I won't have to justify why I don't
feel sympathy.

I feel synmpathy for you.

Wayne

h squared wrote:

Wayne Pein wrote:
I'm almost certain you have been passed by vehicle drivers who changed
lanes.




it's true that on a multi lane road that someone may have changed lanes
to pass me and i wouldn't have even noticed if they did it from far
enough back. but nobody crosses the dotted yellow line separating the
two directions of traffic to pass me the way they would have if i was a
car. at most they partially cross it.

They do for me on a regular basis because I compel it.



if every driver was changing lanes to give me as much room as a car, i
think i would notice it and would have already posted something before
this thread even started about how drivers were acting eerily courteous.


I never said every driver does. Just some.

and plenty of people have passed me in the same lane on a 4 lane road
even- the worst one i told to ilan vardi once- i was skating down hill
on a road covered with patchy black ice, already fearing a bad crash.
there was only one car on the entire road , and instead of just pulling
into another lane, the driver first honked and then passed right next to
me (wtf was that about??)

you've never had any experience like that? cars always pass giving you a
6 foot buffer or more? no wonder you don't see the appeal of bike lanes.


Yes, like every other bicyclist who consistently rides, I have
encountered virtually every possible idiot except the one who tries to
purposefully hit me. No, motorists don't always give me 6' of buffer.
Some purposefully give less and at high speed. But the point of being
more assertive and using more lane space is that on average motorists
pass me better than if I ride on the edge and invite them to squeeze by.

Wayne

Howard Kveck wrote:

Wayne Pein wrote:

Heck of a civil rights leader you would have made!


Ahh, so you're the cycling Martin Luther King. I see. You can't really
believe that your bike-lane use issue can in any way be equated with segregation
that was frequently violently enforced?

"The Wayne man's got a GOD complex..."

Bicyclist segregation is enforced in places, and some motorists treat us
like ****.


It IS my lane. As a legal vehicle operator. If you drive your car you
expect full lane space, yes?


Because it takes up most of the lane, yes. But if someone eases into the lane
I'm in, I do what I can to avoid a crash, be that slowing down, speeding up or
changing lanes. Here's a simple thing that I find works well for me: it isn't
"my lane", it's the lane I'm using.



Semantic game. OK. When I'm on my bike or driving my car it's the lane
I'm using. In either case, I can choose with impunity how much of it I
use. That make you feel better?

Wayne

Steven Bornfeld wrote:



Wayne Pein wrote:


And Steve, I really don't think an ignorant woman buying an SUV for an
arms race is an appropriate person for you to model.

Wayne


You don't really think I'm modeling her do you? I'd just prefer not
to be a model for her hood ornament!


So you admit you are modeling your behavior for her?

Wayne

Wayne Pein wrote:


I never said every driver does. Just some.

the quote i was replying to said neither of the above. it said:
"As a lightweight and vulnerable user, bicyclists should be though of as
being as wide as any other vehicle to account for buffer. "

i'm not disagreeing with that at all, and it's a very telling remark
because while cars should give a wide buffer, they don't on a regular
basis. this is why bike lanes are helpful to people like me. they give a
buffer that you can't rely on getting from a driver's good heart. i
don't like getting passed so close. i i ride to relax and stay in shape,
not to fight a war where i'm tensing for a blow from behind at any moment

But the point of being
more assertive and using more lane space is that on average motorists
pass me better than if I ride on the edge and invite them to squeeze by.

i don't ride on the extreme right edge of any road lacking or only
having a narrow shoulder. but i still like the room a bike lane gives
me. i guess you're just choosing not to believe me about that. i'm not
asking you to lobby for bike lanes or to say that they're the best
choice always. i don't think every single street needs one. but what i'm
telling you over and over is that bike lanes have made riding much more
pleasant for me. i'm about to go ride the traffic hell that is
43rd-180th-carr road (the road of many names and many "ass clenching
moments" (thanks bjw)) and when i turn off of that unfriendly road onto
beautiful 140th with its bike lane, i'm going to once again be
happy/relieved to be there and bless the person who put the bike lane on
the road.

heather

Wayne Pein wrote:



So you admit you are modeling your behavior for her?

Wayne

It's kinda like this, Wayne. I ride on the open road with an awareness
that there are other road users--other cyclists, pedestrians, motor
vehicles. I take my place on the road--as much as I need, and no more.
I ride predictably, so that other road users can see that I am
responsible. I will for instance move out toward the center line of a
road around a blind turn, and signal to following traffic when it is
safe for them to pass.
Other than that, I don't go out of my way to antagonize other road
users. Mostly this is just common courtesy and for the sake of safety.
It is however (and here is my admission) with the knowledge that there
are maniacs out there who are trying to kill me, as well as the
marginally-unbalanced driver who has a thing about cyclists because
someone like you is antagonizing them to prove a point.
Our positions on the issues at hand are very, very close. My problem
is with what I perceive your attitude to be. And if you've managed to
antagonize me, Howard, Kyle, and even Heather--people who are or should
be on YOUR side (for crying out loug) how do you think you might be
affecting the rest of humanity?

Steve



--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

h squared wrote:
Wayne Pein wrote:


I never said every driver does. Just some.


the quote i was replying to said neither of the above. it said:
"As a lightweight and vulnerable user, bicyclists should be though of as
being as wide as any other vehicle to account for buffer. "

i'm not disagreeing with that at all, and it's a very telling remark
because while cars should give a wide buffer, they don't on a regular
basis. this is why bike lanes are helpful to people like me. they give a
buffer that you can't rely on getting from a driver's good heart. i
don't like getting passed so close. i i ride to relax and stay in shape,
not to fight a war where i'm tensing for a blow from behind at any
moment

I'm guessing that you are comparing bike lane roads to narrow roads. Bzzzt.

The research has found that when bike lanes exist, motorists give less
of a buffer to bicyclists than when the road is the same width but
without the stripe. The reason is that a bicyclist in the lane induces
caution, whereas when behind a stripe the motorist has no need to move
over at all nor slow down.

Wayne

Mark & Steven Bornfeld wrote:

Wayne Pein wrote:



So you admit you are modeling your behavior for her?

Wayne


It's kinda like this, Wayne. I ride on the open road with an
awareness that there are other road users--other cyclists, pedestrians,
motor vehicles. I take my place on the road--as much as I need, and no
more. I ride predictably, so that other road users can see that I am
responsible. I will for instance move out toward the center line of a
road around a blind turn, and signal to following traffic when it is
safe for them to pass.
Other than that, I don't go out of my way to antagonize other road
users. Mostly this is just common courtesy and for the sake of safety.
It is however (and here is my admission) with the knowledge that there
are maniacs out there who are trying to kill me, as well as the
marginally-unbalanced driver who has a thing about cyclists because
someone like you is antagonizing them to prove a point.
Our positions on the issues at hand are very, very close. My
problem is with what I perceive your attitude to be. And if you've
managed to antagonize me, Howard, Kyle, and even Heather--people who are
or should be on YOUR side (for crying out loug) how do you think you
might be affecting the rest of humanity?

Steve


You do a lot of crazy assuming. For instance, you claim that I go out of
my way to antagonize other road users. Why would I do that? This is not
rational. If I were you, I would examine my previous posts to see where
your perceptions of me have strayed from reality.

Wayne

Wayne Pein wrote:

You do a lot of crazy assuming. For instance, you claim that I go out of
my way to antagonize other road users. Why would I do that? This is not
rational. If I were you, I would examine my previous posts to see where
your perceptions of me have strayed from reality.

Wayne


I am glad to hear I have once again strayed from reality. I'll take it
on your word.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

Wayne Pein wrote:

i'm not disagreeing with that at all, and it's a very telling remark
because while cars should give a wide buffer, they don't on a regular
basis. this is why bike lanes are helpful to people like me. they give
a buffer that you can't rely on getting from a driver's good heart. i
don't like getting passed so close. i i ride to relax and stay in
shape, not to fight a war where i'm tensing for a blow from behind at
any moment


I'm guessing that you are comparing bike lane roads to narrow roads. Bzzzt.

The research has found that when bike lanes exist, motorists give less
of a buffer to bicyclists than when the road is the same width but
without the stripe. The reason is that a bicyclist in the lane induces
caution, whereas when behind a stripe the motorist has no need to move
over at all nor slow down.

yes, i am comparing bike lane roads to narrower roads not capable of
"hosting" them. i would like the narrow road* to be widened and a bike
lane added to it. but if they just widened the road without adding a
lane, that would be almost as good for me, i'm happy for both
improvements, but i prefer to have cars banned from the right side of
the road if they make me queen and i get to decide.

and if the bike lane is wide enough, cars shouldn't have to move over at
all. that's the whole idea. (if cars still need to pull over to pass,
the bike lane is ridiculous) the bike lane on 140th is nice and wide,
and the lanes are nice and wide too. that way everyone can drive and
ride along at their own speed without having to worry about anyone else.
i don't want cars to move over for me; i want them to be far enough away
already. when they do move over and i'm in my own lane, i take it almost
as an insult that they think i'm not capable of riding in a straight
line. are you getting it that i like having my own lane? that at
least should strike a chord with you.

we'll never see eye to eye, wayne, at least admit that. it amuses me
that you won't admit or believe that some people find bike lanes
pleasant to ride in, but that's ok.

heather
*not every narrow road, just the scary fast ones.