Going Dutch

I like the enclosed appearance and design of typical Dutch bikes. However,
it seems that with more than 3 gears (which I'd need in Edinburgh) you need
to partly dismantle the rear gear to change that wheel.

Anyone had any experience of doing this. Is it straightforward?

Also, does anyone know of an enclosure for a derailleur gear system. Is
there such a thing?

Ta.

In k,
john clayton typed:
I like the enclosed appearance and design of typical Dutch bikes.
However, it seems that with more than 3 gears (which I'd need in
Edinburgh) you need to partly dismantle the rear gear to change that
wheel.

Anyone had any experience of doing this. Is it straightforward?

With my 7 speed hub gear, you need to disconnect the gear changer to change
the rear wheel, but it all slots back into place, so the only tool to remove
the wheel is the spanner for the wheel nuts. It can be a bit messy, but it's
quite straightforward.

Still fiddly enough that I've repaired punctures in situ, though.

A

john clayton wrote:
I like the enclosed appearance and design of typical Dutch bikes.
However, it seems that with more than 3 gears (which I'd need in
Edinburgh) you need to partly dismantle the rear gear to change that
wheel.

There are hub gears with 3, 5, 7, 8 (fairly affordable) and 14 gears (14 is
expensive).

Depending on the frame design (width of the rear axle), you might be able to
substitute one hub for another. The sizes 3,5,7,8 are available with hub
brakes if you also want those (seems like a good idea to me if you're
already accepting the hub gear).


Anyone had any experience of doing this. Is it straightforward?

If its fully enclosed, then its always going to be a bit complex. Most
people would learn to fix punctures without fully removing the rear wheel.

Your alternative might be a semi-enclosed chain guard.

Also, does anyone know of an enclosure for a derailleur gear system.
Is there such a thing?


Dunno. Somebody must have, but its not common.

However, given your stated preferences, perhaps a shaft-driven bike might be
what you're seeking. eg:
http://kinetics.org.uk/html/zero_shaft-drive.html

Kinetics are in Glasgow and seem to attract positive comments from the
newsgroup.




- Nigel

--
NC - Webmaster for http://www.2mm.org.uk/
Replies to newsgroup postings to the newsgroup please.

john clayton wrote:
I like the enclosed appearance and design of typical Dutch bikes.
However, it seems that with more than 3 gears (which I'd need in
Edinburgh) you need to partly dismantle the rear gear to change that
wheel.

I don't know about Dutch bikes, but Nexus 7 hubs have a quick release
mechanism on the gear cable at the hub end, but it's not necessary to
touch that when changing a *tyre*. The wheel can be removed from the bike
with the cable still attached (but unclipped from frame) and placed
besides the bike where you can work on it. Not even always necessary to
do that when fixing a puncture if you can find the problem and patch by
removing just a bit of tyre, without removing the wheel at all.

Versions with roller brake require detatching the brake cable first (by
undoing a nut and working a quick release thingy) -- easy once you've got
the knack.

Funily enough, I volunteered just this weekend to rebuild a Nexus-hubbed
wheel with a new rim for someone. Rim transplant went fine but... hmmm,
oh dear, getting it off was a piece of cake but now I'm not sure about how
that gear cable gubbins goes back together! :-( Give me derailleur gears
any day.
BTW, the wheel weighs over 3 kilos!!! (That's with a Vuelta Tempest
700x19 alloy rim).

~PB

john clayton wrote:
I like the enclosed appearance and design of typical Dutch bikes. However,
it seems that with more than 3 gears (which I'd need in Edinburgh) you need
to partly dismantle the rear gear to change that wheel.

Anyone had any experience of doing this. Is it straightforward?

If the 3 gears are low enough that'll be good enough to get around. I
get round Dundee on a Brompton L3 with the standard -18% gear reduction
and it's fine.
But as others have pointed out, you can get hubs with more than 3 speeds
these days. Undoing the 3 on the Brom to remove the rear wheel isn't
that bad. There's a toggle chain that controls the gear and this just
clicks out. It is fiddlier than taking out a derailleur back wheel on a
QR skewer, but if you have decent tyres (I use Schwalbe Marathons) then
you shouldn't get many punctures anyway.

Another thing to consider enclosing is the chain, which again makes
maintenance fiddlier when you do it, but basic point is you don't
generally need to do it nearly as often.

A modern city bike designed and built in the UK that takes some Dutch
roadster principles to heart without weighing nearly so much is the
Orion City 7. Have a look at http://www.orbit-cycles.co.uk/orion3.shtml
and see what you think as a basis for utility inspiration.

Also, does anyone know of an enclosure for a derailleur gear system. Is
there such a thing?

Yes, it's called a velomobile... ;-) see http://www.velomobiel.nl/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Sun, 04 Jul 2004 21:39:34 GMT, john clayton wrote:
need to partly dismantle the rear gear to change that wheel.

To change the wheel, yes. To change a tyre, no, if it's a steel frame.
Lift the tyre off the rim to the left, remove the wheelnut on the
lefthand side, pull the fork off the axle (requires quite some force, or
a nifty tool called a forkextender) and slide the tyre between fork and
axle. Don't do this with an aluminium frame.

in message , Ambrose Nankivell
') wrote:

In k,
john clayton typed:
I like the enclosed appearance and design of typical Dutch bikes.
However, it seems that with more than 3 gears (which I'd need in
Edinburgh) you need to partly dismantle the rear gear to change that
wheel.

Anyone had any experience of doing this. Is it straightforward?

With my 7 speed hub gear, you need to disconnect the gear changer to
change the rear wheel, but it all slots back into place, so the only
tool to remove the wheel is the spanner for the wheel nuts. It can be
a bit messy, but it's quite straightforward.

Still fiddly enough that I've repaired punctures in situ, though.

My memory of the days when I had a bike with an epicyclic hub is that
you had first to remove the joining link in the drive chain before you
could get the wheel out - with the chain on there was not enough slack,
and there was not enough slack in the chain with it correctly adjusted
to get it off the chainwheel. How do you get round this problem? And
wouldn't it be even more awkward with a full chaincase? My feeling is
that if you're going for an enclosed chain you really need to make it a
monoblade so that you can get the tyre off without messing about with
the wheel.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and we had run out of gas for the welding torch.

In article ,
Simon Brooke wrote:
that if you're going for an enclosed chain you really need to make it a
monoblade so that you can get the tyre off without messing about with
the wheel.

New Mike Burrows design in this month's Cycling+ does exactly that.

ian

"NC" writes:

If its fully enclosed, then its always going to be a bit complex. Most
people would learn to fix punctures without fully removing the rear wheel.

Most of my hack bikes in the NL from childhood on had a fully enclosed
chain guard, coaster brakes and no quick release anthing.
I always fixed punctures without removing the wheel (or losening anything
other than the tires), unless it was time for a new tube, or unless it was
one of those slow leaks that wouldn't reveal itself without total
immersion.

Only when I got into sporty bikes with quick releases I discovered the joy
of just quickly changing the tube

Roos

"Simon Brooke" wrote in message
...

My memory of the days when I had a bike with an epicyclic hub is that
you had first to remove the joining link in the drive chain before you
could get the wheel out - with the chain on there was not enough slack,
and there was not enough slack in the chain with it correctly adjusted
to get it off the chainwheel. How do you get round this problem? And
wouldn't it be even more awkward with a full chaincase? My feeling is
that if you're going for an enclosed chain you really need to make it a
monoblade so that you can get the tyre off without messing about with
the wheel.

All the bikes I've had with hub gears had forward facing dropouts, so undo
the wheel nuts and gear cable, push fowards and take the wheel out in an
entirely normal fashion. Did you have funny droupouts or something?

(hmm. rear facing dropouts - well, I probably wouldn't be aiming to have the
chain tight enough to preclude derailing off the chainring with the wheel
fully forwards. so removal would be like normal except with the additional
step of derailing the chain before pulling it out of the back).

Full chaincase - ah, yes, I'd be practicing my in-situ puncture repairing
then...

cheers,
clive