Cities Turning to Bicycles

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:



If a vehicle is not undergoing extreme lateral acceleration, there is
plenty of friction available for braking as well as turning. And, as
on freeway exit ramps, I have sense to stay away from ten-tenths
cornering moves.


But that's exactly what you were busting me on earlier - entering a
corner at, say, 6/10 and suddenly discovering that I needed 10/10 or
more - which can happen.


Overestimating a safe cornering speed by 40%? That can happen, I
suppose, but not to anyone who's even marginally competent.

Not even in a situation like this?

http://www.gribblenation.com/hfotw/exit_50.html

granted, that's a rare and extreme example, but it illustrates my point
very nicely, I think.


I'm continually astounded that you aren't embarrassed by your own posts.
You routinely make yourself sound like you can barely find the pavement!

You also suggested that I slow down in that

situation, implying braking...


It was meant to imply driving at a slower speed.


That's all well and good, but that doesn't address the problem at all.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:


Overestimating a safe cornering speed by 40%? That can happen, I
suppose, but not to anyone who's even marginally competent.



Not even in a situation like this?

http://www.gribblenation.com/hfotw/exit_50.html


Not even in a situation like that.


You are either being deliberately disingenuous, or else you've never
driven an automobile. There is *no way* to see the decreasing radius
until one is already into the shallower curve.

Therefore, into the killfile with you, since you apparently are immune
to logic.

*plonk*

My apologies to regular readers of RAD for dragging this long, stupid
thread out to its current long, stupid lengths; sometimes I just don't
know when to quit.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:


Overestimating a safe cornering speed by 40%? That can happen, I
suppose, but not to anyone who's even marginally competent.


Not even in a situation like this?

http://www.gribblenation.com/hfotw/exit_50.html

Not even in a situation like that.

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

Nate Nagel wrote:

Wayne Pein wrote:

That is why there is a sign warning of it.

Wayne


Wouldn't it be better to simply make the curve a constant radius rather
than seemingly "trick" drivers?

Nate, once again, you should be embarrassed by what you write.

Only a tiny percentage of the drivers are "tricked" by that situation -
that specific tight freeway ramp with impossible-to-miss warning signs.

The fact that you were among the very few who are "tricked" indicates
you've got something lacking. It doesn't mean you're the worst driver
on the road, but you're clearly not the cream of the crop.

I think you need to slow down. Always.


Incidentally, I drove through there southbound, not northbound, these
last few days. I didn't get to experience the horror of driving that
terribly confusing ramp. ;-) But I did get a look at the warning
sign for that ramp. The sign is literally the size of a billboard! It
just didn't look like a trick to me!

Oh, and I did quite a bit of driving on narrow Appalachian mountain
roads this weekend. Somehow, I managed to successfully negotiate many
decreasing radius curves! Maybe this was a result of my world-beating
driving skills? ;-)

--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

Wayne Pein wrote:

That is why there is a sign warning of it.

Wayne


Wouldn't it be better to simply make the curve a constant radius rather
than seemingly "trick" drivers?

Nate, once again, you should be embarrassed by what you write.

Only a tiny percentage of the drivers are "tricked" by that situation -
that specific tight freeway ramp with impossible-to-miss warning signs.

Except that such warning signs are almost always incorrectly signed by a
factor of two...



The fact that you were among the very few who are "tricked" indicates
you've got something lacking. It doesn't mean you're the worst driver
on the road, but you're clearly not the cream of the crop.

I think you need to slow down. Always.


Incidentally, I drove through there southbound, not northbound, these
last few days. I didn't get to experience the horror of driving that
terribly confusing ramp. ;-) But I did get a look at the warning
sign for that ramp. The sign is literally the size of a billboard! It
just didn't look like a trick to me!

Perhaps that should tell you something about the affect of all the
improperly posted warning signs that people have encountered that they
should have to make that one so very large...



Oh, and I did quite a bit of driving on narrow Appalachian mountain
roads this weekend. Somehow, I managed to successfully negotiate many
decreasing radius curves! Maybe this was a result of my world-beating
driving skills? ;-)

Because on such roads you expect that they will have to follow the
conditions of the mountains themselves. But I bet you still encountered
warning signs that gave you a very inappropriate idea about the speeds
you would need to round certain bends...

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling 4 feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect
if you sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

Nate Nagel wrote:


My apologies to regular readers of RAD for dragging this long, stupid
thread out to its current long, stupid lengths; sometimes I just don't
know when to quit.

.... like, for example, when entering a 25 mph turn at 35 mph! :-)


--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

Alan Baker wrote:

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:



Incidentally, I drove through there southbound, not northbound, these
last few days. I didn't get to experience the horror of driving that
terribly confusing ramp. ;-) But I did get a look at the warning
sign for that ramp. The sign is literally the size of a billboard! It
just didn't look like a trick to me!


Perhaps that should tell you something about the affect of all the
improperly posted warning signs that people have encountered that they
should have to make that one so very large...

From the description on the website Nate mentioned, it's not clear that
the problem is inaccurate labeling of the turn. It sounds like the turn
is at the bottom of a long descent. IOW, it sounds like certain drivers
are letting their cars speed up on that descent, and are unwilling (or
too inattentive) to hit the brakes.

I suppose we could dumb down _all_ the highway system so road zombies
_never_ have to wake up. But it does get a bit expensive, especially in
places like the Appalachians and their foothills, where this interchange
sits.




Oh, and I did quite a bit of driving on narrow Appalachian mountain
roads this weekend. Somehow, I managed to successfully negotiate many
decreasing radius curves! Maybe this was a result of my world-beating
driving skills? ;-)


Because on such roads you expect that they will have to follow the
conditions of the mountains themselves. But I bet you still encountered
warning signs that gave you a very inappropriate idea about the speeds
you would need to round certain bends...

"Inappropriate" as in too high? Never. "Inappropriate" as in too low?
Perhaps, if we go by the standard that every turn should always be
taken near its maximum. That's not my standard.

But in any case: Somehow, somehow, I survived! Again, maybe this was a
result of my world-beating driving skills? ;-)



--
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com.
Substitute cc dot ysu dot
edu]

http://www.netcastdaily.com/broadcas...004-1009-2.ram

Jack Dingler

Alan Baker wrote in message ...
In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

Wayne Pein wrote:

That is why there is a sign warning of it.

Wayne


Wouldn't it be better to simply make the curve a constant radius rather
than seemingly "trick" drivers?

Nate, once again, you should be embarrassed by what you write.

Only a tiny percentage of the drivers are "tricked" by that situation -
that specific tight freeway ramp with impossible-to-miss warning signs.

Except that such warning signs are almost always incorrectly signed by a
factor of two...



The fact that you were among the very few who are "tricked" indicates
you've got something lacking. It doesn't mean you're the worst driver
on the road, but you're clearly not the cream of the crop.

I think you need to slow down. Always.


Incidentally, I drove through there southbound, not northbound, these
last few days. I didn't get to experience the horror of driving that
terribly confusing ramp. ;-) But I did get a look at the warning
sign for that ramp. The sign is literally the size of a billboard! It
just didn't look like a trick to me!

Perhaps that should tell you something about the affect of all the
improperly posted warning signs that people have encountered that they
should have to make that one so very large...

I believe I've addressed this already - even if you accept the "larger
means they really mean it" premise, it doesn't hold up, as every
tollbooth in the state of PA has similarly sized signs recommending
similar speeds, and are pretty much uniformly ludicrous (i.e. 25 MPH
or 35 MPH 1/2 mile away from a tollbooth, which you can still see
anyway because the road is dead flat and arrow straight.) As an added
bonus, they throw up rumble strips before the signs to make *sure* you
see them.



Oh, and I did quite a bit of driving on narrow Appalachian mountain
roads this weekend. Somehow, I managed to successfully negotiate many
decreasing radius curves! Maybe this was a result of my world-beating
driving skills? ;-)

Because on such roads you expect that they will have to follow the
conditions of the mountains themselves. But I bet you still encountered
warning signs that gave you a very inappropriate idea about the speeds
you would need to round certain bends...

Yeah, I've just accepted the fact that Frank is immune to reason.
There's a difference between a mountain road and an Interstate
highway, but he refuses to acknowledge that.

nate

Nate Nagel wrote:

Alan Baker wrote in message ...

In article ,
Frank Krygowski wrote:


... I did get a look at the warning
sign for that ramp. The sign is literally the size of a billboard! It
just didn't look like a trick to me!

Perhaps that should tell you something about the affect of all the
improperly posted warning signs that people have encountered that they
should have to make that one so very large...


I believe I've addressed this already - even if you accept the "larger
means they really mean it" premise, it doesn't hold up, as every
tollbooth in the state of PA has similarly sized signs recommending
similar speeds, and are pretty much uniformly ludicrous (i.e. 25 MPH
or 35 MPH 1/2 mile away from a tollbooth, which you can still see
anyway because the road is dead flat and arrow straight.) As an added
bonus, they throw up rumble strips before the signs to make *sure* you
see them.

This is at least partly because a tractor trailer plowed through a toll
booth a few years ago. The toll booth workers _really_ prefer that
drivers come out of their trances. It helps their life expectancy.

And I imagine it's partly because accidents happen when drivers somehow
miss the fact that traffic is actually backed up and stopped at the toll
booths.

Now you may wonder, how on earth could someone drive along and not see a
line of cars, or a tool booth, sitting stationary in the road ahead of
them?

But then, we wonder how someone could misjudge a 25 mph ramp to the
point they have to do a "controlled four wheel drift" [sic] to make it
through!

Road zombies. They need to wake up, and slow down.


--
--------------------+
Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com,
replace with cc.ysu dot edu]