about f'ing time (bike rule enforcement)

In article 6Mfsk.640$w51.227@trnddc01,
Peter Cole wrote:

max wrote:

yesterday we were at the Lincoln restaurant at Lincoln and Irving Park,
directly across the street from the ghost bike they erekted for that
alley cat dude (Manger Lynch??) that got splattered during a "race"
through that intersection. As i sat there, eating my greek salad and
broody maly, I couldn't help thinking that "victimhood" carries with it
a certain ethic/moral component and that this guy wasn't a victim.
Casualty, yes, but victim?

From what I've read, not even the other alley cat racers considered him
a victim. I guess you interpret the ghost bike as some sort of implicit
victimhood claim, but you could just as easily consider it a reminder to
the alley cats and others that riding like that carries fatal risks.

i disagree, emphatically.

I walked that intersection after lunch and
scoped the sightlines. I was soo tempted to make a sign that said
DUMBASS for the ghost bike, although barb restrained me. But her
message "stupid people die in stupid ways" would have taken too much
foamboard.

I can't imagine any life that hasn't included some really stupid
moments, they're usually not fatal, thankfully. This guy had the
misfortune of paying the ultimate price. Apparently that wasn't enough
for you?

i made it pretty clear: these bikes little shrines need to have some
kind of context. this one is so far away from the intersection (and on
the wrong side of the street) that it looks like the guy got splattered
coming out of a Starbucks.

in the context of the trib story, it's that plenty of the city's
cyclists think he _is_ a victim. I can find you about a dozen in the
apt. building next door who think the Lincoln/Irving park bike
represents some biker who got splattered by YA inattentive cager. they
have no. clue.

Without context it becomes whatever treacly legend one's mind comes up
with.

More generally, i'm not real keen on memorializing every location in the
city where someone dies. Chicago has a lot of people. They die. What
makes one person's stupid death on the sidewalk/street more deserving of
memorialization than another's? Will there be a ribbon for the cop that
shot himself at Milwaukee and Logan this week?

..max

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On 2008-08-24, max wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Gass wrote:

max wrote:
Chicago is ramping up RotR and equipment enforcement on cyclists
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ckdown-webaug2
2,0,3716423.story

Based on a survey in the Logan Square neighborhood between 9 and 11
tonight, about 90% of the cyclists in Chicago don't have any kind of
lighting at all, and damn few (less than 50%) even have reflectors.
Out rage us.

I estimate traffic control compliance much better, at about 80% for
lights, but only about 2% for stop signs.

I get not stopping at stop signs when there's noone around or timing
them so you hit the sign at the same time a car going your direction is
going so you don't have to stop. Technically illegal, sure, but not
unsafe.

ya. i don't get too cranked-up about that.

What I don't get is the ****ers like the guy I almost hit by
DePaul who blasted the stop sign as I'm already in the middle of the
intersection, so I had to panic stop not to hit him and then flipped me
off.

agreed. this lighting stuf (no lights + ironic hipster blaque) really
annoys me.

That guy deserves to get hit, but the person who will hit him
doesn't deserve to go through that. That kind of Critical Masshole
needs to get a damned clue.

yesterday we were at the Lincoln restaurant at Lincoln and Irving Park,
directly across the street from the ghost bike they erekted for that
alley cat dude (Manger Lynch??) that got splattered during a "race"
through that intersection. As i sat there, eating my greek salad and
broody maly, I couldn't help thinking that "victimhood" carries with it
a certain ethic/moral component and that this guy wasn't a victim.
Casualty, yes, but victim? I walked that intersection after lunch and
scoped the sightlines. I was soo tempted to make a sign that said
DUMBASS for the ghost bike, although barb restrained me. But her
message "stupid people die in stupid ways" would have taken too much
foamboard.

.max


Shoulda posted. I live about 2 minutes' walk from the Lincoln. Not the
best diner in the 'hood, but passable.

--
smr

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Geoff Gass" wrote: I get not stopping at stop signs when there's noone
around or timing
them so you hit the sign at the same time a car going your direction is
going so you don't have to stop. Technically illegal, sure, but not
unsafe. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Actually SAFER than stopping and waiting for the next opportunity, AND less
disruptive to traffic.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Well, you could argue (at the illogical extreme) that it would be safer
to wait for a real break in traffic, but at some intersections, that
could be a long time. You're absolutely right about less disruptive to
traffic. A lot of cyclists I see are pretty good at it. A little coast
as you approach the intersection to read the cars, then zoom through
with one.

(clip) Critical Masshole (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I love it :-)))

I take no credit, that's mercilessly stolen from some other poster.

Peter Cole wrote:
max wrote:
yesterday we were at the Lincoln restaurant at Lincoln and Irving Park,
directly across the street from the ghost bike they erekted for that
alley cat dude (Manger Lynch??) that got splattered during a "race"
through that intersection. As i sat there, eating my greek salad and
broody maly, I couldn't help thinking that "victimhood" carries with it
a certain ethic/moral component and that this guy wasn't a victim.
Casualty, yes, but victim?

From what I've read, not even the other alley cat racers considered him
a victim. I guess you interpret the ghost bike as some sort of implicit
victimhood claim, but you could just as easily consider it a reminder to
the alley cats and others that riding like that carries fatal risks.

There was at least one guy quoted in the press saying that the dead
guy was a victim.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5986557

I can't imagine any life that hasn't included some really stupid
moments, they're usually not fatal, thankfully. This guy had the
misfortune of paying the ultimate price. Apparently that wasn't enough
for you?

That's not his point at all. His point is that the guy shouldn't be
memorialized as a victim of car culture or whatever such BS is being put
out with this ghost bike. Try giving that kind of treatment to people
who deserve it, like Thomas McBride. (I know I'm going back a couple
years on that, but that was a big case for cyclists here).

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Peter Cole" wrote: (clip) I can't imagine any life that hasn't included
some really stupid
moments, they're usually not fatal, thankfully. This guy had the
misfortune of paying the ultimate price. Apparently that wasn't enough for
you?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
With all due respect, Peter, I take a slightly different view. He did not
learn from this experience. The comments being offered cannot help him and
cannot hurt him further. But the rest of us should learn to avoid such
"really stupid moments." The comments are directed at helping the rest of
us stay alive.



If it was your son would you want to see "DUMBASS" on a ghost bike?

max wrote:
In article 6Mfsk.640$w51.227@trnddc01,
Peter Cole wrote:

max wrote:

yesterday we were at the Lincoln restaurant at Lincoln and Irving Park,
directly across the street from the ghost bike they erekted for that
alley cat dude (Manger Lynch??) that got splattered during a "race"
through that intersection. As i sat there, eating my greek salad and
broody maly, I couldn't help thinking that "victimhood" carries with it
a certain ethic/moral component and that this guy wasn't a victim.
Casualty, yes, but victim?
From what I've read, not even the other alley cat racers considered him
a victim. I guess you interpret the ghost bike as some sort of implicit
victimhood claim, but you could just as easily consider it a reminder to
the alley cats and others that riding like that carries fatal risks.

i disagree, emphatically.
I walked that intersection after lunch and
scoped the sightlines. I was soo tempted to make a sign that said
DUMBASS for the ghost bike, although barb restrained me. But her
message "stupid people die in stupid ways" would have taken too much
foamboard.

I can't imagine any life that hasn't included some really stupid
moments, they're usually not fatal, thankfully. This guy had the
misfortune of paying the ultimate price. Apparently that wasn't enough
for you?

i made it pretty clear: these bikes little shrines need to have some
kind of context. this one is so far away from the intersection (and on
the wrong side of the street) that it looks like the guy got splattered
coming out of a Starbucks.

It wasn't clear to me, you wrote:

"yesterday we were at the Lincoln restaurant at Lincoln and Irving Park,
directly across the street from the ghost bike they erekted for that
alley cat dude (Manger Lynch??) that got splattered during a "race"
through that intersection. "


in the context of the trib story, it's that plenty of the city's
cyclists think he _is_ a victim.


Which Trib story? The one you cited didn't mention the incident.

I can find you about a dozen in the
apt. building next door who think the Lincoln/Irving park bike
represents some biker who got splattered by YA inattentive cager. they
have no. clue.

Perhaps not. I'm sure most people don't know what a white painted bike
means, either.


Without context it becomes whatever treacly legend one's mind comes up
with.

I'm sure it wouldn't to the 50 or so participants in the race he was in.


More generally, i'm not real keen on memorializing every location in the
city where someone dies. Chicago has a lot of people. They die. What
makes one person's stupid death on the sidewalk/street more deserving of
memorialization than another's? Will there be a ribbon for the cop that
shot himself at Milwaukee and Logan this week?

It's a free country (more or less). If some citizen (or group of
citizens) wants to put up white painted bikes at the site of cyclist
fatalities I guess it's their business.

In chi.general smr wrote:
On 2008-08-24, max wrote:
In article ,
Geoff Gass wrote:

max wrote:
Chicago is ramping up RotR and equipment enforcement on cyclists
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ckdown-webaug2
2,0,3716423.story

Based on a survey in the Logan Square neighborhood between 9 and 11
tonight, about 90% of the cyclists in Chicago don't have any kind of
lighting at all, and damn few (less than 50%) even have reflectors.
Out rage us.

I estimate traffic control compliance much better, at about 80% for
lights, but only about 2% for stop signs.

I get not stopping at stop signs when there's noone around or timing
them so you hit the sign at the same time a car going your direction is
going so you don't have to stop. Technically illegal, sure, but not
unsafe.

ya. i don't get too cranked-up about that.

What I don't get is the ****ers like the guy I almost hit by
DePaul who blasted the stop sign as I'm already in the middle of the
intersection, so I had to panic stop not to hit him and then flipped me
off.

agreed. this lighting stuf (no lights + ironic hipster blaque) really
annoys me.

That guy deserves to get hit, but the person who will hit him
doesn't deserve to go through that. That kind of Critical Masshole
needs to get a damned clue.

yesterday we were at the Lincoln restaurant at Lincoln and Irving Park,
directly across the street from the ghost bike they erekted for that
alley cat dude (Manger Lynch??) that got splattered during a "race"
through that intersection. As i sat there, eating my greek salad and
broody maly, I couldn't help thinking that "victimhood" carries with it
a certain ethic/moral component and that this guy wasn't a victim.
Casualty, yes, but victim? I walked that intersection after lunch and
scoped the sightlines. I was soo tempted to make a sign that said
DUMBASS for the ghost bike, although barb restrained me. But her
message "stupid people die in stupid ways" would have taken too much
foamboard.

.max


Shoulda posted. I live about 2 minutes' walk from the Lincoln. Not the
best diner in the 'hood, but passable.

there's some weird vibes in that place, but the food seemed ok.

Geoff Gass wrote:
Peter Cole wrote:
max wrote:
yesterday we were at the Lincoln restaurant at Lincoln and Irving Park,
directly across the street from the ghost bike they erekted for that
alley cat dude (Manger Lynch??) that got splattered during a "race"
through that intersection. As i sat there, eating my greek salad and
broody maly, I couldn't help thinking that "victimhood" carries with it
a certain ethic/moral component and that this guy wasn't a victim.
Casualty, yes, but victim?
From what I've read, not even the other alley cat racers considered him
a victim. I guess you interpret the ghost bike as some sort of implicit
victimhood claim, but you could just as easily consider it a reminder to
the alley cats and others that riding like that carries fatal risks.

There was at least one guy quoted in the press saying that the dead
guy was a victim.

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=5986557

Yeah, it was the guy's friend & organizer of the event. He went off on
some anti-car rant -- film at 11:00.


I can't imagine any life that hasn't included some really stupid
moments, they're usually not fatal, thankfully. This guy had the
misfortune of paying the ultimate price. Apparently that wasn't enough
for you?

That's not his point at all. His point is that the guy shouldn't be
memorialized as a victim of car culture or whatever such BS is being put
out with this ghost bike. Try giving that kind of treatment to people
who deserve it, like Thomas McBride. (I know I'm going back a couple
years on that, but that was a big case for cyclists here).

Ghost bikes are hardly like Nobel prizes or Congressional Medals of
Honor, there's no committee. Anybody can paint a bike white & chain it
to a street post.

"max" wrote in message
...
Chicago is ramping up RotR and equipment enforcement on cyclists
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ckdown-webaug2
2,0,3716423.story

Based on a survey in the Logan Square neighborhood between 9 and
11
tonight, about 90% of the cyclists in Chicago don't have any kind
of
lighting at all, and damn few (less than 50%) even have
reflectors.
Out rage us.

I estimate traffic control compliance much better, at about 80%
for
lights, but only about 2% for stop signs.

[writing from r.b.m., but living in Chicago. Is chi.general worth
reading again, or it is still low in information content?]

A little education never hurt nobody. This year there are a lot of
newby's out there, and also cyclists who haven't been on a bicycle
much since they got their driver's license. There's a lot of bad
cycling behavior to be seen, and if giving people a traffic fine
will maybe save their lives, I'm all for it.

Based on my riding down Elston, I'd estimate lights at about 40%.
But that's a major commuter route, and a lot of the cyclists there
are regulars. If you observed 20 cyclists in Logan Square and 18
didn't have lighting, I wouldn't be surprised.

Motorist compliance at stop signs (4 way stop type of intersections,
in the absence of cross-traffic) isn't that far above 2% in terms of
coming to a complete stop. There's a lot of "rolling through while
looking" on the motorist side as well. The sight lines on a bicycle
are much better than in a car (because you don't have an engine in
front of you), so it makes some sense that cyclists would roll
through more.

ZBicyclist wrote:
"max" wrote in message
...
Chicago is ramping up RotR and equipment enforcement on cyclists
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ckdown-webaug2
2,0,3716423.story

Based on a survey in the Logan Square neighborhood between 9 and
11
tonight, about 90% of the cyclists in Chicago don't have any kind
of
lighting at all, and damn few (less than 50%) even have
reflectors.
Out rage us.

I estimate traffic control compliance much better, at about 80%
for
lights, but only about 2% for stop signs.

[writing from r.b.m., but living in Chicago. Is chi.general worth
reading again, or it is still low in information content?]

we're in the middle of a name change proposition
chi.jon.nelson.general