CycloCross: Dismount/Run vs Jump?

In article ,
"Clive George" wrote:

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
m...

European courses have turned into little more than mudholes with wide open
courses so that the only thing tested is the athletic ability of the
cyclocross rider and little else.

Amusingly the one of the bigger CX races in the UK is held round here - the
3 peaks. They've got "no MTB" rules, possibly because a full bounce MTB
would actually be rather good for the off-road sections. Maybe less good for
the 18 miles road though.

The amusing bit is that it's by no means a mudhole with wide open courses -
there's some pretty challenging riding on it, some quite narrow. There's
also quite a lot of carrying :-)

(but it doesn't count as a continental pro CX race)

The 3 Peaks is a wonderful event, and one I would dearly love to compete
in. However, I should point out that it is essentially unrelated to
mainstream CX racing: 3-6 hours long, point-to-point course, with a
massive amount of running, so much so that competitive trail-runners are
serious competitors.

Some guy named Andy Peace even won both the 3 Peaks CX and a prestigious
3-peaks trail running race in the same year.

One reasonable excuse for the MTB ban would also be the very long paved
sections in this race, which I assume tend to play out like a road race,
with pack riding and such.

With regard to the idea of epic CX rides, I should note that last March
I did one that was nearly 8 hours of riding:

http://wiredcola.com/content/awfully-big-adventure

I didn't make it.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message
]...

One reasonable excuse for the MTB ban would also be the very long paved
sections in this race, which I assume tend to play out like a road race,
with pack riding and such.

The race proper starts on the off-road climb up Ingleborough, so I think
they're split up by the time they get to the road section - which also
starts with a quick down followed by a nasty up, just to help keep people
apart :-)

But wouldn't an MTB ban be unnecessary if bunch riding on the paved sections
gave an advantage? I think the ban is more to do with keeping it distinct
from an MTB ride - it's supposed to be about the silliness of coming off
Whernside on a drop bar bike :-) I think an MTB would have a large advantage
on much of the off-road, especially for the less-elite people, so the
restriction is necessary - otherwise it could well just turn into an MTB
race.
(I do wonder if there are access reasons too - farmers may be happier about
letting the CX people on there once a year, but might see MTBing as
encouraging lesser mortals to try it at other times as well)

cheers,
clive

wrote in message
...

Cyclocross racing should not be an athletic event?

Wow, if you can't even understand what I'm writing maybe you ought to get a
job as a High School teacher.

Cyclocross races in my part of the country are not done on single
track. Although after a few hundred riders go over the course it can
look pretty torn up and muddy so its almost single track. They also
allow mountain bikes.

Wow, if you can't even understand what I'm writing maybe you ought to get a
job as a High School teacher.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

" wrote in message
...

And it's not like I quoted Adam out of context.
When he was here, you were a thorn in his side, and
now that he's gone[*] you want to moan about how
all the mean people drove the real racers away.
Take some responsibility for doing it yourself.

I've got news for you junior, Adam and I would argue but the fact is that it
was argument and nothing more. What bothers you is that you can't bring
yourself to talk on topic. Why is that? Bicycles too foreign to you?

Your post was dumb then. It's still dumb. You're hollering
about Albright's success promoting CX races for both
elite and amateur classes.

Like now?

We just went over in this thread
why cyclocross evolved away from MTB courses towards
more Euro-style courses. Cyclocross is a marginal sport in
the US, but it's now still arguably in a better position than
US MTB racing, so it doesn't look like a mistake.



Bunch snipped


I also saw a great diversity of courses this year, from thngs that were
nearly dirt-crits with a perfunctory run-up, to a beach event that
featured tons and tons of deep sand is a pure wattage-fest.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ryan I've been having a huge brain cramp since this whole discussion
started, and it gets to Tom's point and my original way back in the
beginning of this.
Somewhere around, I'm guessing since the wetware sucks these days,
about 5 or 6 years ago a retired, established Euro-Pro basically took
over UCI cross and decided that the whole thing, especially the
courses had to be revamped to be much more open/grass crit with some
sand and mud thrown in and for the life of me I can't pull that name
out.
I've done a bunch of searches but can't seem to find it. Part of the
problem is that I'm sure I'm mixing up interviews I've read with
conversations I was involved with or just listened to between Adam,
Tom Stevens, and others about this too. There was a ton of discussion
about this both for the Verge series and for Nat's in RI, along with
lots of hardcore barrier/"technical" course advocates here.
Who the hell am I thinking of?

Bill C

Bill C wrote:
Somewhere around, I'm guessing since the wetware sucks these days,
about 5 or 6 years ago a retired, established Euro-Pro basically took
over UCI cross and decided that the whole thing, especially the
courses had to be revamped to be much more open/grass crit with some
sand and mud thrown in and for the life of me I can't pull that name
out.

Adrie van der Poel?

On Feb 11, 9:40*am, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
wrote in message

...



Cyclocross racing should not be an athletic event?

Wow, if you can't even understand what I'm writing maybe you ought to get a
job as a High School teacher.

Cyclocross races in my part of the country are not done on single
track. *Although after a few hundred riders go over the course it can
look pretty torn up and muddy so its almost single track. *They also
allow mountain bikes.

Wow, if you can't even understand what I'm writing maybe you ought to get a
job as a High School teacher.

You write "Cyclocross should be a fun race for real cyclists and not
an athletic event
making a living for hundreds of guys. " Where do you get this queer
notion cyclocross racing is for a hundred guys making a living? In my
part of the country we have many cyclocross races with many
participants, none making a living from it. Let me repeat that so you
maybe will understand. None of the cyclocross participants make a
living from it. They do it for fun and recreation. How on earth did
you think up this queer idea of cyclocross races being about people
making a living from it? I think maybe you should acquire a bicycle
and ride it. Then you would learn something about bicycling. Maybe,
not likely, buy maybe. Right now you are clueless about bicycling.

wrote in message
...

You write "Cyclocross should be a fun race for real cyclists and not
an athletic event making a living for hundreds of guys." Where do you
get this queer notion cyclocross racing is for a hundred guys making
a living?

Couldn't be from the idea that they're trying to set a standard for courses
which is used in Europe for the professional racers. But whatever, it's
pretty obvious that notion is a bit too hard to understand.

In my part of the country we have many cyclocross races
with many participants, none making a living from it. Let me
repeat that so you maybe will understand. None of the cyclocross
participants make a living from it.

Then perhaps you ought to lay the courses out for them and not according to
a European standard?

Then you would learn something about bicycling. Maybe,
not likely, buy maybe. Right now you are clueless about bicycling.

I have 1100 miles for the year so far. How many miles have you?

In article
,
" wrote:

On Feb 11, 9:40*am, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
wrote in message

...



Cyclocross racing should not be an athletic event?

Wow, if you can't even understand what I'm writing maybe you ought to get a
job as a High School teacher.

Cyclocross races in my part of the country are not done on single
track. *Although after a few hundred riders go over the course it can
look pretty torn up and muddy so its almost single track. *They also
allow mountain bikes.

Wow, if you can't even understand what I'm writing maybe you ought to get a
job as a High School teacher.

You write "Cyclocross should be a fun race for real cyclists and not
an athletic event
making a living for hundreds of guys. " Where do you get this queer
notion cyclocross racing is for a hundred guys making a living? In my
part of the country we have many cyclocross races with many
participants, none making a living from it. Let me repeat that so you
maybe will understand. None of the cyclocross participants make a
living from it. They do it for fun and recreation. How on earth did
you think up this queer idea of cyclocross races being about people
making a living from it? I think maybe you should acquire a bicycle
and ride it. Then you would learn something about bicycling. Maybe,
not likely, buy maybe. Right now you are clueless about bicycling.

This is funny, whether you know that Tom Kunich regularly
posts messages describing in detail his stable of 5-10
bicycles, or do not.

--
Michael Press