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  #11  
Old January 26th 07, 11:58 AM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Buck
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On 2007-01-25 22:20:26 +0000, "chalo colina" said:

32GO wrote:

Jeff and I got a bit off the topic in the TdPS. His last
post there said:

I have no problem piloting a trike in the mid to high
20's but when I go down a hill of any decent size,
I'm very quickly in the 30's and the trike does not
feel stable.


I'm often intrigued at
the conversations of 'bent bikers comparing their
impressions of long wheel-base, short wheel-base and
lowracers, and who feels safest at what speed on which
machine. Trikes are probably a bit different in that
they require almost nothing in the way of operator skill
or training at speeds up to 'casual cruising', and some
riders seem to be lulled into forgetting that as they
push the limits, trikes begin to demand some of the same
skills and heightened attention that it takes to ride a
bike fast.


Trikes as a rule have a natural "critical speed" that has more to do
with vehicle dynamics than it does with the rider's fear and
perceptions.


I regularly decend hills at speeds in excess of 50mph, the only thing to be
wary of is sudden steering or brake inputs although the brake issue is less
so on the new 700 and Expedition.
--
Three wheels good, two wheels ok

www.catrike.co.uk

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  #12  
Old January 26th 07, 04:00 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Curtis L. Russell
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On 25 Jan 2007 14:20:26 -0800, "chalo colina"
wrote:

So because
'bent bikes are (generally speaking) worse than upright bikes with
regard to stability at speed, 'bent trikes are /more stable/ than
upright trikes, and this makes two- and three-wheeled 'bents comparable
to each other in their sure-footedness at high speed.


I've raced diamond frames and ridden for some time a SWB Vision. I
find taking the Vision down a curving downhill more stable than the
diamond frames - and I've held my own in a decending pace line under
race conditions. So I simply do not agree with your assumption. Yes,
Armstrong or Merkx could out descend me - but the same would be true
with me on a diamond frame.

FWIW, a person that knows how to race an upright trike can make it do
wonders in a turn - something I have observed but been unable to
duplicate (and had the scars for a while to prove my lack of success -
it wasn't as easy as it looked, and it didn't look easy in the first
place). Not sure if they would try the same leaning process on a fast
downhill though.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
  #13  
Old January 26th 07, 04:08 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Curtis L. Russell
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On 26 Jan 2007 00:55:52 -0800, "32GO" wrote:

The front end geometry of a tadpole is pretty much the
same as an automobile's, and as far as I know, there's
no such thing as a "critical speed".


That reminds me of the joke about what the critical speed was for the
old Morgan three wheelers and the answer was any speed when the back
tire blew out. But I rather doubt YOUR premise about a diamond frame
rider making constant adjustments (except perhaps during hands off
riding). At speed a DF is rather forgiving and you can actually work
against the bike (within reason, like when removing a jacket) for some
distance before things become truly dicey.

OTOH, the Vision was completely stable when I removed my jacket. Of
course, I was stopped and had both feet on the ground before I would
attempt it.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
  #14  
Old January 26th 07, 06:32 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Edward Dolan
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"32GO" wrote in message
oups.com...
[...]
Tadpoles are very stable and simple to ride at low to
medium speeds, and their braking ability may be the best
available on any 'normal' road vehicle, but at some
point, a trikey is exposed to the same real risks as any
other cyclist. For me, that transition from carefree fun
(in lower case) to gunfighter-eyed, yellow-alert, battle
stations, play racer mentality usually comes somewhere
between about 30 and 40 MPH. But hey, sometimes even a
little rational fear is FUN! (upper case with exclamation
point)


Wayne is comfortable at those speeds on his tadpole because he rides such a
bike exclusively. However, for the rest of us, a top speed of around 20 mph
is more reasonable before the handling gets tricky. That is fast enough for
any recumbent trike, even a well designed delta like the Kettwiesel. The
truth is that tadpoles are not stable at the higher speeds.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #15  
Old January 26th 07, 06:42 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default Fear of Flying


"Jeff Grippe" wrote in message
...

ALL TOP POSTERS ARE IDIOTS!

You have made some interesting observations. One of mine is that back in
the days when I rode DF's, I could easily ride without holding onto the
handlebars. I have never had a recumbent bike where I could ride without
holding on (I owned an Infinity LWB, Vision SWB, and Trek). The Trek,
which I thought I would love, was the "twitchiest" steerer. The Infinity,
which was the oldest and lowest end of the bikes I've owned was my
favorite.


No one has ever been able to ride any recumbent hands-off. Thus spake
Zarathustra.

What the hell was low end about the Infinity? I bought one new and one used.
The one I bought new was quite expensive and there was nothing low end about
it. I still think for a multiple tube frame recumbent that it is one of the
best looking ones ever made. It always reminds me of the very early Avatar.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota



  #16  
Old January 26th 07, 07:11 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
[email protected]
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On one downhill run I got my Linear LWB up to 82 kph (50 mph). It felt
solid as a rock, and it was only my nerves that gave out. I started
having brief thoughts like "hope the front wheel's QR skewer is done up
tight enough", and then "what would happen if a tire blew out?". Well,
potential road rash at that speed didn't sound like any fun, and I was
already over the posted 60kph (40 mph) speed lilmit, so I was happy to
stop pedaling and just coast until the road levelled out more.

The next time I went down that hill I was happy to stay at only 70 kph.


Mark

  #18  
Old January 26th 07, 07:18 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Dave Larrington
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In article , curtis@md-
bicycling.org says...

FWIW, a person that knows how to race an upright trike can make it do
wonders in a turn - something I have observed but been unable to
duplicate (and had the scars for a while to prove my lack of success -
it wasn't as easy as it looked, and it didn't look easy in the first
place). Not sure if they would try the same leaning process on a fast
downhill though.


Though to do so like the /serious/ barrow boys requires enough
flexibility to be able to get one's head down to knee level while still
pedalling.

That's me out, then.

--
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
Do not top-post like a Cretinous Foul-Yob fit only for Stoning.
  #19  
Old January 26th 07, 07:19 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default Fear of Flying


"32GO" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hey folks -

Who says we can't have interesting on-topic discussions
here at ARBR?


Well, yes, recumbent trikes are your business so of course we would expect
that you would show some minimal interest. At least you are proving to me
that you can write acceptable prose and not just verse about **** and ****
and ass and ****.
[...]

The biggest single difference that I see between bikes
and trikes is that anyone riding a two-wheeler has to
constantly make minor steering and/or weight shift
corrections to keep the bike upright AT ANY SPEED, and
the process of making those continuous compensations
becomes almost subconscious for him. The process is made
a bit more appropriate to normal human aptitudes by the
short-term stability provided by the precession effect
of the wheels and the rounded profile of bike tires.


Well, good grief, that is the whole fun of riding an upright bike!

But on a trike, at low and medium speeds, there is
absolutely no need for the rider to do anything but make
minor steering corrections.


Which is why it is quite dull to ride a trike at low and medium speeds for
the average person.

When the trike begins going
fast enough to make it more of a challenge to control
its direction with its sensitive steering, compensating
and correcting for stiction, linkage slack and
hysteresis, it begins to demand a lot more in the way of
attention, precision and good reflexes.

[...]

In other words, a trike is not stable at speed and does not handle well. It
is really only fun to ride a recumbent trike at fairly high speeds at which
point it becomes dangerous to do so. The bottom line is that you can't win.
Recumbent trikes are for going places in comfort and security at a medium
speed at best and they are not for having much fun unless you like to live
dangerously.

A 2-wheel recumbent does not have any of the difficulties that trikes have.
That is the main reason why trikes are so hard to sell in comparison. They
look like they are more fun than they turn out to be. At least a 2-wheel
recumbent is closer to an upright and it is possible to have some fun on
them without getting yourself killed.
[...]

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


  #20  
Old January 26th 07, 07:36 PM posted to alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
Edward Dolan
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Posts: 14,212
Default Fear of Flying


"Buck" wrote in message
news:2007012610592850073-SPAMTRAPian@trikesandstuffDOTcoDOTuk...
[...]
I regularly decend [descend] hills at speeds in excess of 50mph, the only
thing to be
wary of is sudden steering or brake inputs although the brake issue is
less
so on the new 700 and Expedition.


You confounded moron, it is those steering inputs, not sudden but ever so
gradual, which make recumbent trikes, especially tadpoles, so dangerous at
speed. I hope to God Jeff is not listening to any of this foolishness. He is
quite right to trust his instincts in this matter and does not need another
bang-up crash to go along with all his other ailments.

Besides, why are you lying about your downhill speeds? You must think we
were all born yesterday. What a load of bull**** you peddle on a regular
basis to this newsgroup. Have you no shame?

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota


 




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