Impressions from Bike to Work Day

On May 23, 8:24*am, SMS wrote:
On 5/22/2011 10:58 PM, thirty-six wrote:

Tea requires boiling water to make it, it is expected.

It's better to use boiling water but many American restaurants give you
a tea bag and a cup of hot water. It's terrible tea, brewed wrong, but

Even in England, Starbucks serve terrible tea. It's poor tea. If
memory serves me right it came with the "milk" already in with a
teabag. All I wanted was a teacup of real tea, not 12floz of hot wet
stuff that wasn't coffee. Bigger servings were available, but no
alternative tea. Perhaps I was expected to put a handful of sugar in
it.

most people don't know any better. I'm a tea snob after so many trips to
Asia, and it's the gift I usually bring back from Taiwan which has some
of the best tea in the world.

Used to get Clipper here as a good everyday afternoon blended black
tea. Tried it recently and it's now like the longer time established
firms. Except for Twinings named varieties, all the loose tea seems
to be of the teabag (fine cut) style.


For many people "high quality tea" comes in a tea bag in a cardboard box
since unless a non-Asian city has a good Japantown or Chinatown, high
quality tea is hard to find. The difference between good tea and poor
tea is amazing, and once you taste good tea you never want to go back.

When I work out the effort involved in making a cuppa, it deserves
something better than a basic blend in a bag, and I continually look
for different teas.

Water quality, hardness and aeration can have a major effect on not
realising the potential of a tea.


Coffee does
not require boiling water so it is reasonable to expect it to be made
at a lower temperature..

This is true. As long as the water is around 195 degrees when it hits
the coffee it's fine. You don't want it hotter or cooler.

In any case, with regards to tea, most cyclists drink coffee since it
provides health benefits unavailable from tea.

And don't get me started about herbal "tea." No such thing of course.

When I don't need the kick I usually turn to a "rasberry" tea when not
having alcohol.

On Sun, 22 May 2011 22:35:21 -0700 (PDT), Chalo
wrote:

john B. wrote:

Chalo wrote:

Pete Cresswell wrote:

Per Chalo:

It's also like they never sampled delicious cold brewed coffee that
never even reached room temperature during steeping, yet contains
subtle flavors that even the freshest hot brewed coffee does not.

Never thought of brewing the stuff cold.

Gotta give it a try.

How long does it need to sit? * Hours? *Days?

Brew in the fridge all day or all night-- six to ten hours. *Cold
brewed coffee packs a big hit of caffeine and flavor, but doesn't
irritate the stomach like normal coffee. *Beware.

More specifically? One spoon (tea? - table?) per cup? Time? Can it be
brewed too long? How is the coffee ground?

Here's a credible recipe:
http://www.ineedcoffee.com/06/cold-brewed/

I use my usual ludicrously heaping tablespoon per cup into a French
press. I stir the coffee into the water and put it in the fridge
until morning. Normally I use an unremarkable Colombian medium roast
for this, and I grind it to a moderately fine texture that won't send
a lot of sludge past the screen in my coffee press. I never managed
to steep it until it was unpleasant, but I have never let it sit more
than about 16 hours before consuming it. As I said before, there is
nothing in cold brewed coffee to make you feel you've had more than
enough.

Try it; served over ice, it's just the ticket for hot summer days.
Still makes you sweat, though.

Chalo


If it were heated in a microwave just before serving would it still be
satisfactory?I like hot coffee.

On Sun, 22 May 2011 21:26:33 -0700, SMS
wrote:

On 5/22/2011 1:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I drink several espressos every day, made with steam through powdered
coffee straight in to a ceramic cup with a saucer and nary a problem. I
can't imagine drinking coffee while in a moving vehicle but apparently
that has some appeal despite obvious risks such as driver distraction.
How might one downshift into a fast corner with liquid in the car?

The debate here is really whether or not a restaurant should serve a
product that, if accidentally spilled, will cause 3rd degree burns.

Whether the coffee is consumed in a moving vehicle or in the restaurant,
it should not be so hot that if it is knocked over and it contacts the
skin that it will cause 3rd degree burns.

Everyone agrees that serving a beverage that is hot enough to cause 3rd
degree burns in a flimsy paper cup is negligent. 1st degree burns from a
spilled beverage would be acceptable, 2nd degree burns, probably okay as
well.

I'm not sure that the world agrees with you.

I've been thinking about this since the thread was started and I don't
believe I have ever been served a cup of coffee that I could drink
straight away, as soon as it was slammed down on the table. Usually
when you get a cup of coffee you take a little sip, meanwhile inhaling
so there is a rush of air over the coffee to cool it, so you don't
burn your tongue, and invariably it is too hot so you either blow on
it, or just let it set for a while. Of course you have the pessimists
who don't bother with the first sip and just saucer and blow it
straight away.

Certainly you couldn't drink the coffee in the mess halls I ate in
without waiting for it to cool and when I've been out in a camp
drinking coffee out of one of those blue enamel coffee pots where they
pour it into a tin cup you can be damned sure that it is too hot to
hold, never mind drinking it.

Now given that the woman was nearly 80 years old she likely came from
a generation where women actually cooked things, rather then opening a
package and shoving it in a microwave, so it is probably that she must
have come across something hot and undoubtedly knew just what it was.
I'll bet she checked the temperature of her flat iron by either
spitting on it or, being a lady, licking her finger and touching the
iron; very quickly.

So, I don't believe that she wasn't aware of exactly what she had in
her hands - a cup of HOT coffee.

On Mon, 23 May 2011 14:47:25 +1000, James
wrote:

SMS wrote:
On 5/22/2011 1:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I drink several espressos every day, made with steam through powdered
coffee straight in to a ceramic cup with a saucer and nary a problem. I
can't imagine drinking coffee while in a moving vehicle but apparently
that has some appeal despite obvious risks such as driver distraction.
How might one downshift into a fast corner with liquid in the car?

The debate here is really whether or not a restaurant should serve a
product that, if accidentally spilled, will cause 3rd degree burns.

Is there a specific temperature that a mostly water based liquid must be
before it causes 3rd degree burns when spilled on human skin?

Does it also depend on the individual persons skin and location on their
body?

Liebeck's (the woman's) lawyers presented the jury with evidence that
180 degree coffee like that McDonald's served may produce third-degree
burns (where skin grafting is necessary) in about 12 to 15 seconds.
Lowering the temperature to 160 degree would increase the time for the
coffee to produce such a burn to 20 seconds.

(A British court later rejected this argument as scientifically false
finding that 149 degree liquid could cause deep tissue damage in only
two seconds.)

Apparently it is a matter of temperature and time.

Whether the coffee is consumed in a moving vehicle or in the restaurant,
it should not be so hot that if it is knocked over and it contacts the
skin that it will cause 3rd degree burns.

That's your opinion.

What should the restaurant do that serves a flaming grill? Is that
different from a coffee? Is it exempt?

Everyone agrees that serving a beverage that is hot enough to cause 3rd
degree burns in a flimsy paper cup is negligent.

You are wrong. I do not agree.

1st degree burns from a
spilled beverage would be acceptable, 2nd degree burns, probably okay as
well.

Why stop there?

On Sun, 22 May 2011 22:58:07 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
wrote:

On May 20, 5:02*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:


... just like a standard cup of tea. *Why no comment on tea
temperatures?

Tea requires boiling water to make it, it is expected. Coffee does
not require boiling water so it is reasonable to expect it to be made
at a lower temperature..


Espresso is made at a temperature of 197 - 204 (F); a percolator uses
boiling water to operate; a vacuum pot works by boiling the water; and
when making coffee in a pot over the campfire you bring it to a boil
and take it off the fire.

On 21/05/11 20:04, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° wrote:
On 5/20/2011 9:34 AM, Peter Clinch wrote:
[...]
Most 'bent riders (certainly this one) seem to say that it's very
important to try before you buy, because the difference between two
notional 'bents is usually much greater than two notional uprights. So
are you going to drop mucho $$$s on something folk say you must try,
that you typically can't try (because they're hard to come by to test
ride)? I'm an advocate, and I'd say don't do that.[...]

Why not? Heck, I just ordered a velomobile, sight unseen.

IME different models handle and feel very differently. When my wife was
looking to get one we went to NL to test a few. Some things that had
looked good on paper were uninspiring, another was a complete dog. She
ended up with one that on paper wasn't right but in practice just put a
huge grin straight on her face.

If I try a Bianchi road bike, and then a Giant and then a Trek and then
a Speccie etc. at similar prices, it'll be down to nuances (possibly the
colour...) that decides it. On a 'bent functional equivalent the
contenders could be /very/ different beats to ride.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On 5/23/2011 5:03 AM, john B. wrote:

Espresso is made at a temperature of 197 - 204 (F); a percolator uses
boiling water to operate; a vacuum pot works by boiling the water; and
when making coffee in a pot over the campfire you bring it to a boil
and take it off the fire.

That's true. However in the U.S., restaurant coffee is almost always
made using a drip filter, and coffee at home is either drip filtered or
French press. Percolators are rare in the U.S. these days. Most
department stores won't have a single one. Percolators recirculate the
brewed coffee through the beans and they expose the coffee to too high a
temperature which removes the volatile compounds from the beans. It does
result in hotter coffee and as the volatile compounds boil off you get a
great aroma from the perked coffee but unfortunately those volatile
compounds are absent from the actual beverage.

For camping, at least in the U.S., you generally just bring a cone and
some paper filters, you don't do "cowboy coffee." Some people still use
percolators when camping because it's less trouble, or even go the
instant route. There is some almost decent instant coffee these days but
it's very expensive per cup.

On 22/05/11 2:06 PM, AMuzi wrote:

I don't know but have you considered that some tens of millions of
people repeatedly went back for more ?

That doesn't have anything to do with if the product met safety rules.

Again, just because tens of millions of people bought bicycles wouldn't
mean that the manufacturer was off the hook if there was a defect that
led to injuries for hundreds of riders.

If there's a defect, it doesn't matter if it causes injury to just one
person or hundreds of people or millions of people - it's defective.
And if you are that one person who was injured by a defective item, you
don't want the defense to be able to get away with claiming that it
worked great for everyone else - you want them held accountable for your
damages due to their defective product.

jc

john B. wrote:

Chalo wrote:

I use my usual ludicrously heaping tablespoon per cup into a French
press. *I stir the coffee into the water and put it in the fridge
until morning. *Normally I use an unremarkable Colombian medium roast
for this, and I grind it to a moderately fine texture that won't send
a lot of sludge past the screen in my coffee press. *I never managed
to steep it until it was unpleasant, but I have never let it sit more
than about 16 hours before consuming it. *As I said before, there is
nothing in cold brewed coffee to make you feel you've had more than
enough.

Try it; served over ice, it's just the ticket for hot summer days.
Still makes you sweat, though.

If it were heated in a microwave just before serving would it still be
satisfactory?I like hot coffee.

I don't see why not; seems worth a try. If it tastes rich and
aromatic cold, I expect it would be pretty tasty hot too. It's not as
bitter as hot brewed, so you might miss that quality.

Chalo

On May 23, 12:26*am, SMS wrote:

Whether the coffee is consumed in a moving vehicle or in the restaurant,
it should not be so hot that if it is knocked over and it contacts the
skin that it will cause 3rd degree burns.

That coffee was NOT so hot that contacting the skin would cause 3rd
degree burns. If it merely contacted the skin under any normal
accident scenario, all but a thin layer would immediately leave the
skin. The remaining layer wetting the skin would cool too quickly to
cause 3rd degree burns. IOW, it would not have the thermal capacity
to raise a significant depth of skin to a temperature that would cause
serious injury.

Stella's coffee didn't merely contact Stella's skin. It stayed in a
deep puddle in Stella's lap, providing many seconds of contact with a
relatively deep puddle, with resulting high heat capacity. It did
that because Stella did something very, very dumb: dumping hot coffee
into her crotch while sitting in a car seat, from which she was unable
to quickly stand up.

Coffee is intended to be drunk slowly, by sipping. It's not intended
for use as a crotch bath. The coffee in question may have been
unsuitable for a crotch bath, but it was suitable for its intended
purpose.

- Frank Krygowski