We're from the government. We're here to help you.

On 12/9/2019 5:01 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 14:54:10 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 3:52 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

Cork cannot be the capital of jaywalkers because European
jurisdictions (Vienna Convention) do not disallow crossing
the road. The strongest Europe has is a recommendation
"You should use a crosswalk if there is one within 50
yards of you".

That's interesting, and much better than some ordinances
around here that require crossing only at marked or unmarked
crosswalks. (An "unmarked crosswalk" is the unmarked
extension of a side street's sidewalk. It's treated as a
legal crosswalk, although only one in 100 motorists realize
that.)

Our village has a couple schools within about a quarter mile
of the library. There are two streets kids can use to get to
and cross South Main St. on their way to the library. The
more pleasant street has no traffic light, so the village
wanted the kids to use the intersection with the traffic
light and pedestrian light.

Their solution? They put up "No crossing" signs directly
across from the library, and at the intersection about 50
feet away that has no signal.

My wife and I ignore those signs. It should be OK, because
from what I can tell, the village never actually passed an
ordinance regarding that. And the speed limit is only 25
mph, through an area with shops and historic buildings.
Motorists _should_ be slow and careful.



Who dreams up this crap and why are we so woefully short of
bureaucrat assassinations?

Can't you get an exemption based on being old enough to have
once been a free citizen of a free country?

But you never were a free citizen in a free country. Read the laws
promulgated by the "Pilgrims" in the New England colonies where you
could be punished for not attending church on Sunday, and that was
specifically Their church. Where strangers in town were forbidden to
remain; Where lying could be punished by "or be whipped upon the naked
body".
--
cheers,

John B.


What relevance does a former remote colony of England have
to with anything?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/9/2019 3:37 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 12:54:16 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 3:52 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

Cork cannot be the capital of jaywalkers because European
jurisdictions (Vienna Convention) do not disallow crossing
the road. The strongest Europe has is a recommendation
"You should use a crosswalk if there is one within 50
yards of you".

That's interesting, and much better than some ordinances
around here that require crossing only at marked or unmarked
crosswalks. (An "unmarked crosswalk" is the unmarked
extension of a side street's sidewalk. It's treated as a
legal crosswalk, although only one in 100 motorists realize
that.)

Our village has a couple schools within about a quarter mile
of the library. There are two streets kids can use to get to
and cross South Main St. on their way to the library. The
more pleasant street has no traffic light, so the village
wanted the kids to use the intersection with the traffic
light and pedestrian light.

Their solution? They put up "No crossing" signs directly
across from the library, and at the intersection about 50
feet away that has no signal.

My wife and I ignore those signs. It should be OK, because
from what I can tell, the village never actually passed an
ordinance regarding that. And the speed limit is only 25
mph, through an area with shops and historic buildings.
Motorists _should_ be slow and careful.



Who dreams up this crap and why are we so woefully short of
bureaucrat assassinations?

Can't you get an exemption based on being old enough to have
once been a free citizen of a free country?

When was that?

Wis. Stat. 944.16  Adultery. Whoever does either of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
(1) A married person who has sexual intercourse with a person not the married person's spouse; or
(2) A person who has sexual intercourse with a person who is married to another.

Originally enacted in 1849.

80% of everything you do on a daily basis would result in a fine or criminal punishment in colonial Virginia. https://www.history.org/foundation/j...g03/branks.cfm

-- Jay Beattie.


I can see how The Bagwan would prefer Oregon. Thanks for
clearing that up!

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 19:22:54 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 5:01 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 14:54:10 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 3:52 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

Cork cannot be the capital of jaywalkers because European
jurisdictions (Vienna Convention) do not disallow crossing
the road. The strongest Europe has is a recommendation
"You should use a crosswalk if there is one within 50
yards of you".

That's interesting, and much better than some ordinances
around here that require crossing only at marked or unmarked
crosswalks. (An "unmarked crosswalk" is the unmarked
extension of a side street's sidewalk. It's treated as a
legal crosswalk, although only one in 100 motorists realize
that.)

Our village has a couple schools within about a quarter mile
of the library. There are two streets kids can use to get to
and cross South Main St. on their way to the library. The
more pleasant street has no traffic light, so the village
wanted the kids to use the intersection with the traffic
light and pedestrian light.

Their solution? They put up "No crossing" signs directly
across from the library, and at the intersection about 50
feet away that has no signal.

My wife and I ignore those signs. It should be OK, because
from what I can tell, the village never actually passed an
ordinance regarding that. And the speed limit is only 25
mph, through an area with shops and historic buildings.
Motorists _should_ be slow and careful.



Who dreams up this crap and why are we so woefully short of
bureaucrat assassinations?

Can't you get an exemption based on being old enough to have
once been a free citizen of a free country?

But you never were a free citizen in a free country. Read the laws
promulgated by the "Pilgrims" in the New England colonies where you
could be punished for not attending church on Sunday, and that was
specifically Their church. Where strangers in town were forbidden to
remain; Where lying could be punished by "or be whipped upon the naked
body".
--
cheers,

John B.


What relevance does a former remote colony of England have
to with anything?

Well, it was you who used the term "free citizen in a free country". I
simply pointed out that from its beginnings it has never been a free
country, nor has its residents even been free. For God's Sake! It
hasn't been that many years ago that people had to run away to a
foreign to avoid being forced into the Army.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 12/9/2019 8:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 19:22:54 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 5:01 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 14:54:10 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 3:52 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

Cork cannot be the capital of jaywalkers because European
jurisdictions (Vienna Convention) do not disallow crossing
the road. The strongest Europe has is a recommendation
"You should use a crosswalk if there is one within 50
yards of you".

That's interesting, and much better than some ordinances
around here that require crossing only at marked or unmarked
crosswalks. (An "unmarked crosswalk" is the unmarked
extension of a side street's sidewalk. It's treated as a
legal crosswalk, although only one in 100 motorists realize
that.)

Our village has a couple schools within about a quarter mile
of the library. There are two streets kids can use to get to
and cross South Main St. on their way to the library. The
more pleasant street has no traffic light, so the village
wanted the kids to use the intersection with the traffic
light and pedestrian light.

Their solution? They put up "No crossing" signs directly
across from the library, and at the intersection about 50
feet away that has no signal.

My wife and I ignore those signs. It should be OK, because
from what I can tell, the village never actually passed an
ordinance regarding that. And the speed limit is only 25
mph, through an area with shops and historic buildings.
Motorists _should_ be slow and careful.



Who dreams up this crap and why are we so woefully short of
bureaucrat assassinations?

Can't you get an exemption based on being old enough to have
once been a free citizen of a free country?

But you never were a free citizen in a free country. Read the laws
promulgated by the "Pilgrims" in the New England colonies where you
could be punished for not attending church on Sunday, and that was
specifically Their church. Where strangers in town were forbidden to
remain; Where lying could be punished by "or be whipped upon the naked
body".
--
cheers,

John B.


What relevance does a former remote colony of England have
to with anything?

Well, it was you who used the term "free citizen in a free country". I
simply pointed out that from its beginnings it has never been a free
country, nor has its residents even been free. For God's Sake! It
hasn't been that many years ago that people had to run away to a
foreign to avoid being forced into the Army.
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm old but not so old that I lived in Plymouth Colony. Did you?

Not in my own family, but several of girlfriend's relatives
left the newly formed Germany to avoid conscription in the
mid to late 1800s. Pulling a hard life out of the wilderness
with an axe seemed a better plan to them.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 20:24:04 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 8:09 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 19:22:54 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 5:01 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 09 Dec 2019 14:54:10 -0600, AMuzi wrote:

On 12/9/2019 11:13 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/9/2019 3:52 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:

Cork cannot be the capital of jaywalkers because European
jurisdictions (Vienna Convention) do not disallow crossing
the road. The strongest Europe has is a recommendation
"You should use a crosswalk if there is one within 50
yards of you".

That's interesting, and much better than some ordinances
around here that require crossing only at marked or unmarked
crosswalks. (An "unmarked crosswalk" is the unmarked
extension of a side street's sidewalk. It's treated as a
legal crosswalk, although only one in 100 motorists realize
that.)

Our village has a couple schools within about a quarter mile
of the library. There are two streets kids can use to get to
and cross South Main St. on their way to the library. The
more pleasant street has no traffic light, so the village
wanted the kids to use the intersection with the traffic
light and pedestrian light.

Their solution? They put up "No crossing" signs directly
across from the library, and at the intersection about 50
feet away that has no signal.

My wife and I ignore those signs. It should be OK, because
from what I can tell, the village never actually passed an
ordinance regarding that. And the speed limit is only 25
mph, through an area with shops and historic buildings.
Motorists _should_ be slow and careful.



Who dreams up this crap and why are we so woefully short of
bureaucrat assassinations?

Can't you get an exemption based on being old enough to have
once been a free citizen of a free country?

But you never were a free citizen in a free country. Read the laws
promulgated by the "Pilgrims" in the New England colonies where you
could be punished for not attending church on Sunday, and that was
specifically Their church. Where strangers in town were forbidden to
remain; Where lying could be punished by "or be whipped upon the naked
body".
--
cheers,

John B.


What relevance does a former remote colony of England have
to with anything?

Well, it was you who used the term "free citizen in a free country". I
simply pointed out that from its beginnings it has never been a free
country, nor has its residents even been free. For God's Sake! It
hasn't been that many years ago that people had to run away to a
foreign to avoid being forced into the Army.
--
cheers,

John B.


I'm old but not so old that I lived in Plymouth Colony. Did you?

Not in my own family, but several of girlfriend's relatives
left the newly formed Germany to avoid conscription in the
mid to late 1800s. Pulling a hard life out of the wilderness
with an axe seemed a better plan to them.

No, I didn't live in colonial Plymouth but quite a number of the so
called "blue Laws", that were derived from the original laws governing
conduct on Sunday, were still in force when I was in high school. For
example, businesses of all sorts had to close on Sunday.

Being forced to enter the military is not a measure of "freedom"
whether in Germany or the U.S. which rather proves my point, does it
not?
--
cheers,

John B.

Am 09.12.2019 um 22:39 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
Cultures differ!

One friend of my wife's visited Germany, then Italy, going along with
her husband on a business trip. She's of Italian ancestry.

She noted that in Germany, people waited in an orderly line for the bus,
and when it arrived, entered the bus in that line.

I've never seen an orderly line for the bus in Germany (having spent 40
years in the country and using buses a lot), I remember this as a
typical British custom.

On 12/10/2019 4:53 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 09.12.2019 um 22:39 schrieb Frank Krygowski:
Cultures differ!

One friend of my wife's visited Germany, then Italy, going along with
her husband on a business trip. She's of Italian ancestry.

She noted that in Germany, people waited in an orderly line for the
bus, and when it arrived, entered the bus in that line.

I've never seen an orderly line for the bus in Germany (having spent 40
years in the country and using buses a lot), I remember this as a
typical British custom.

I admit, I heard her story long ago. Maybe she was describing only the
entry to the bus. But I clearly remember her disappointment in the
Italian to German comparison.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 1:12:02 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:29 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 3:36:50 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/8/2019 4:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2019 at 11:16:40 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/8/2019 12:56 PM, Chalo wrote:
Andre, you should know that "jaywalking" was a social engineering term cooked up by automakers to stigmatize people exercising their rights to use public streets. The campaign worked, and by now most people don't believe that people have a right to the road.

Exactly right.

We recently visited very good friends in a distant city. They were once
avid members of our bike club, and the guy in particular is very, very
safety oriented. (Safety was his profession before he retired.)

At one point he was driving us to some big mall. He turned right off one
major street and about 100 yards later was moving to the left lane to
turn into the mall's parking garage. A woman scurried across the road in
front of us. He fussed at her for jaywalking. "She's refusing to use the
crosswalk right back there!"

But I defended her. The crosswalk was at that busy interction, with at
least five lanes on each of the intersecting streets. If its like most
crosswalks in that area, she'd probably get ten seconds of "WALK" before
the sign started flashing, and she'd be trying to cross at least 60 feet
of pavement. Meanwhile, motorists would be rushing to squeeze their
turns in just before (or during) the red light and paying no heed to
pedestrians.

Where she crossed, she just had to look to the left, scurry to a
landscaped center island, then wait in safety as she looked for clear
space to the right. And besides, what right does a motorists sitting in
a cushy seat have to tell a pedestrian they have to walk an additional
200 yards?


You're f****** nuts. Pedestrians-as-squirrels are one of my biggest nightmares -- on a bike! I have people step of curbs in unmarked areas, against lights -- basically whenever they get the urge. Riding in the cycletrack near PSU is a joke with all the witless college kids just stepping into the facility looking down at their iPhones. This is our future? Pedestrians acting badly are a real threat to lawful cyclists.

-- Jay Beattie.


Yes.
Used to be annoying. Now that the wandering idiots meander
all over hell with earbuds, texting and pot it's outright
dangerous.


Pedestrians have right-of-way but they too can be ticketed for careless walking. But they do NOT have to cross at cross walks. Hell, in Phoenix they would have to walk a half mile to even find a cross walk.


Phoenix? Right that was AI Automobile's first victim if I
recall.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

No, they were regularly killing people off here in California long before that Phoenix pedestrian. I stopped looking for another job. I really don't need the money and they are acting like they are doing me a favor to offer me a job. I'm a problem solver and if they want someone to kiss their ass for a job they can find plenty of college graduates that can't do it correctly.

On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 4:17:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 1:12:02 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:29 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
O
Pedestrians have right-of-way but they too can be ticketed for careless walking. But they do NOT have to cross at cross walks. Hell, in Phoenix they would have to walk a half mile to even find a cross walk.


Phoenix? Right that was AI Automobile's first victim if I
recall.


No, they were regularly killing people off here in California long before that Phoenix pedestrian.

Oh? Got a link or three? "Regularly" implies more than a couple deaths.

I stopped looking for another job. I really don't need the money and they are acting like they are doing me a favor to offer me a job. I'm a problem solver and if they want someone to kiss their ass for a job they can find plenty of college graduates that can't do it correctly.

Sorry about your failure to find work.

- Frank Krygowski

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:39:38 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Tuesday, December 10, 2019 at 4:17:38 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 1:12:02 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/9/2019 11:29 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
O
Pedestrians have right-of-way but they too can be ticketed for careless walking. But they do NOT have to cross at cross walks. Hell, in Phoenix they would have to walk a half mile to even find a cross walk.


Phoenix? Right that was AI Automobile's first victim if I
recall.


No, they were regularly killing people off here in California long before that Phoenix pedestrian.

Oh? Got a link or three? "Regularly" implies more than a couple deaths.

I stopped looking for another job. I really don't need the money and they are acting like they are doing me a favor to offer me a job. I'm a problem solver and if they want someone to kiss their ass for a job they can find plenty of college graduates that can't do it correctly.

Sorry about your failure to find work.

- Frank Krygowski

One can only speculate? Does attending collage somehow disqualify one
from doing "things" correctly?
--
cheers,

John B.