TdF and recumbents

"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Clive George" wrote:

"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Clive George" wrote:

"JCrowe" wrote in message
...
Peter Clinch wrote:
wrote:

Do you know if any recumbents climb those European grades?

If you make a trike with low enough gearing your climbing limit is
tyre
traction.

Trikes aren't necessarily slow: I perhaps have to remind you
/again/
that the 800+ mile End to End record in the UK is held on a
recumbent
trike.

Yeah but the highest point in the UK is Ben Nevis, right? And
that's
less than 5000 ft. Not disputing the validity of recumbent trikes,
but
there's a significant difference between Ben Nevis and L'Alpe
Huez....
YMMV....

I've not seen pros getting off and walking in the Alps or Pyrenees -
I've
seen it on climbs in the UK though...

What is "it"?

Genuine question, or just ****ing about?

Pros getting off and walking climbs in the UK?

Yup, they've done it. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Rosedale
Chimney is very steep but fairly short.

"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"Michael Press" wrote in message
...
/
Pros getting off and walking climbs in the UK?

Yup, they've done it. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Rosedale
Chimney is very steep but fairly short.

Pros do it in the spring classics too.

"Clive George" wrote in message
...
"Michael Press" wrote in message
...

Pros getting off and walking climbs in the UK?

Yup, they've done it. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Rosedale
Chimney is very steep but fairly short.

You can see it all the time on the Spring Classics in Belgium.

On Jul 30, 5:02 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

snip


No it doesn't. Because it the commute exceeds 15 miles people will drive.
Unless they're fanatics.


Wow. Not only do I have such a clear understanding of Denmark now, I
understand *myself*! I'm a fanatic! (So *that's* it ;-) What a
liberating feeling :-) Thanks, Tom! I guess maybe I'd better not
plonk you after all! ;-)

On Jul 31, 9:32 pm, Dan O wrote:
On Jul 30, 5:02 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:

snip



No it doesn't. Because it the commute exceeds 15 miles people will drive.
Unless they're fanatics.

Wow. Not only do I have such a clear understanding of Denmark now, I
understand *myself*! I'm a fanatic! (So *that's* it ;-) What a
liberating feeling :-) Thanks, Tom! I guess maybe I'd better not
plonk you after all! ;-)

(Must be asleep ;-)

wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:44:07 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

wrote:

Do you know if any recumbents climb those European grades?
If you make a trike with low enough gearing your climbing limit is tyre
traction.

Trikes aren't necessarily slow: I perhaps have to remind you /again/
that the 800+ mile End to End record in the UK is held on a recumbent
trike.

Pete.

Dear Pete,

Two wheels, please. It's rec.bicycling.tech.

No, you also x-post into alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

wrote:

Neither "best" has shown much practical application for events like
the Tour de France.

I wasn't really suggesting that it would, merely that dismissals of
recumbents thus far have been based on some vague arm-waving in the
direction of facts that fail to take a great deal into account.

Once we sue Henri Desgranges, the wicked Bill Gates of the two-wheeled
world, we can put everyone on the "best" recumbents!

I just think it would be nice to be able to actually find out what /is/
best, don't you?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:37:52 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

wrote:

Neither "best" has shown much practical application for events like
the Tour de France.

I wasn't really suggesting that it would, merely that dismissals of
recumbents thus far have been based on some vague arm-waving in the
direction of facts that fail to take a great deal into account.

Once we sue Henri Desgranges, the wicked Bill Gates of the two-wheeled
world, we can put everyone on the "best" recumbents!

I just think it would be nice to be able to actually find out what /is/
best, don't you?

Pete.

Dear Pete,

First we'd have to figure out what we mean by "best"--in this thread,
"best" for the TDF.

Under current TDF equipment rules, recumbents and Moultons are
eliminated right away, so they're not "best".

If we open the rules to allow anything with two wheels and no motor
(sorry, tricycle enthusiasts), then we allow the fairings that give
recumbents most of their advantage--but the uprights would add partial
fairings and improve, too.

Do we allow tandem uprights? Or do we add a one-rider rule? Heck, we
allow teams to imitate tandems by drafting as closely as they can, so
it seems reasonable for the tandem enthusiasts to start complaining
that the rules are rigged against them. Upright tandems with two or
more riders were used as pacers for solo riders, beginning in the
1890s, and they go awfully fast.

The TDF also has a long history of changing things like routes, so
what if the organizers decide to add lots of ugly +20% hill-climbs?

There are claims that recumbents don't do well at all on such stuff,
and there's plenty of steep climbs in Europe.

I'd love to see the current peloton struggling up such hideous climbs.
(And think about the descents!)

With such steep climbs, we'd see something lower than 39x21 or 39x24
uprights. For the first rides up some famous Tour climbs in the early
1950s, they used 52x42 and 14x18 corncobs, but the struggling riders
soon realized that 42x18 is 2.33 to 1, while 39x21 is 1.85 to 1, 20%
lower.

I haven't seen anything in this thread about faired recumbents and
cobblestones. It would be easy to include some Paris-Roubaix nastiness
in the TDF.

Come to think of it, we don't even have to stick to one kind of bike,
do we? The partly-faired tandem riders from the nice pavement could
switch to individual suspended uprights for the cobblestone stages and
then to ultra-low-gear lightweights for the +20% grade time-trial and
finally to faired recumbents for the flying-start 200 meter
time-trial.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:18:01 +0200, Jon Bendtsen
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:44:07 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

wrote:

Do you know if any recumbents climb those European grades?
If you make a trike with low enough gearing your climbing limit is tyre
traction.

Trikes aren't necessarily slow: I perhaps have to remind you /again/
that the 800+ mile End to End record in the UK is held on a recumbent
trike.

Pete.

Dear Pete,

Two wheels, please. It's rec.bicycling.tech.

No, you also x-post into alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

Dear Jon,

That's still _bi_cycles, not _tri_cycles.

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 09:18:01 +0200, Jon Bendtsen
wrote:

wrote:
On Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:44:07 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

wrote:

Do you know if any recumbents climb those European grades?
If you make a trike with low enough gearing your climbing limit is tyre
traction.

Trikes aren't necessarily slow: I perhaps have to remind you /again/
that the 800+ mile End to End record in the UK is held on a recumbent
trike.

Pete.
Dear Pete,

Two wheels, please. It's rec.bicycling.tech.
No, you also x-post into alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

Dear Jon,

That's still _bi_cycles, not _tri_cycles.

Oh right, sorry.