The hopelessness of Greenwich Foot Tunnel

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:52:52 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote:

On 23/10/2012 07:16, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 01:18:32 +0100, "Partac"
wrote:



"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827

Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if
they didn't properly project manage the works.


Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the
"No Cycling" notice.

Is that another of your good friends?

I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?

Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling
and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?

You could try dialling 999.


Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.
- I had forgotten how stupid you are.

Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the
tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.

Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding
them and one scooting.

Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?

Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are
lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer
pedestrians.

5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.


Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?

Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.

What, all in the Greenwich foot tunnel? After all, this is what the thread
is all about. Or did you decide to bring in some completely irrelevant info
to provide a smokescreen(as usual)?

No, it was plankwit who started talking about the road instead of the
foot tunnel.


"Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits."

Those are your words, you brought up motorists into this thread.

Indeed, but only after Plankwit asked for a road v foot tunnel
lawbreaking comparison.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:50:02 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 18:55, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827

Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if
they didn't properly project manage the works.


Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the
"No Cycling" notice.

Is that another of your good friends?

I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?

Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling
and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?

You could try dialling 999.


Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.
- I had forgotten how stupid you are.

Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the
tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.

Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding
them and one scooting.

Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?

Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are
lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer
pedestrians.

5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.


Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?

Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.



Lets think about that, according to you only one third (aprox) of
motorists stop at red lights, if that was true there would be thousands
of collisions every day at light controlled junctions.
As that is not the case your observations must be wrong.

Not at all.

Casual observations at the A2212/A20 junction indeed confirm that 2-3
motor vehicles pass lights which are not green every phase.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:06:19 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:50:02 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 18:55, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827

Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if
they didn't properly project manage the works.


Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the
"No Cycling" notice.

Is that another of your good friends?

I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?

Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling
and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?

You could try dialling 999.


Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.
- I had forgotten how stupid you are.

Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the
tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.

Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding
them and one scooting.

Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?

Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are
lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer
pedestrians.

5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.


Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?

Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.



Lets think about that, according to you only one third (aprox) of
motorists stop at red lights, if that was true there would be thousands
of collisions every day at light controlled junctions.
As that is not the case your observations must be wrong.

Not at all.

Casual observations at the A2212/A20 junction indeed confirm that 2-3
motor vehicles pass lights which are not green every phase.


Oh dear - Crispin's usual logic.

Firstly he says that 75% ignore *red* lights - and then he changes his story to
lights "which are not green".

He is really not bright.


--

Bertie Wooster's real name is Tom Crispin.
He uses the name Bertie Wooster so that people involved with
Young Lewisham and Greenwich Cyclists and John Ball primary school
can't see what a tosser he is.

On 23/10/2012 20:03, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:52:52 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote:

On 23/10/2012 07:16, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 01:18:32 +0100, "Partac"
wrote:



"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827

Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if
they didn't properly project manage the works.


Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the
"No Cycling" notice.

Is that another of your good friends?

I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?

Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling
and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?

You could try dialling 999.


Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.
- I had forgotten how stupid you are.

Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the
tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.

Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding
them and one scooting.

Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?

Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are
lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer
pedestrians.

5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.


Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?

Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.

What, all in the Greenwich foot tunnel? After all, this is what the thread
is all about. Or did you decide to bring in some completely irrelevant info
to provide a smokescreen(as usual)?

No, it was plankwit who started talking about the road instead of the
foot tunnel.


"Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits."

Those are your words, you brought up motorists into this thread.

Indeed, but only after Plankwit asked for a road v foot tunnel
lawbreaking comparison.

Wriggling again? My comment was clearly about cyclists breaking the law
on the roads.

You are either stupid or malicious. I'll apply Hanlon's Razor.

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton, of Lancaster
University, wrote in an interim assessment of the Understanding Walking
and Cycling study. "For them, cycling is a bit embarrassing, they fail
to see its purpose, and have no interest in integrating it into their
lives, certainly on a regular basis."

On 23/10/2012 20:06, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:50:02 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 18:55, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827

Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if
they didn't properly project manage the works.


Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the
"No Cycling" notice.

Is that another of your good friends?

I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?

Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling
and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?

You could try dialling 999.


Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.
- I had forgotten how stupid you are.

Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the
tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.

Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding
them and one scooting.

Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?

Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are
lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer
pedestrians.

5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.


Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?

Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.



Lets think about that, according to you only one third (aprox) of
motorists stop at red lights, if that was true there would be thousands
of collisions every day at light controlled junctions.
As that is not the case your observations must be wrong.

Not at all.

Casual observations at the A2212/A20 junction indeed confirm that 2-3
motor vehicles pass lights which are not green every phase.


And how many have stopped at the red light using your 'casual observations'?

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:22:41 PM UTC+1, Judith wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:06:19 +0100, Bertie Wooster

wrote:



On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:50:02 +0100, Tony Dragon

wrote:



On 22/10/2012 18:55, Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR

wrote:



On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith

wrote:



On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster

wrote:



On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith

wrote:



On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster

wrote:



And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827



Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if

they didn't properly project manage the works.





Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the

"No Cycling" notice.



Is that another of your good friends?



I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?



Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling

and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?



You could try dialling 999.





Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.

- I had forgotten how stupid you are.



Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the

tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.



Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding

them and one scooting.



Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?



Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are

lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer

pedestrians.



5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.





Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?



Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic

signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore

the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.







Lets think about that, according to you only one third (aprox) of

motorists stop at red lights, if that was true there would be thousands

of collisions every day at light controlled junctions.

As that is not the case your observations must be wrong.



Not at all.



Casual observations at the A2212/A20 junction indeed confirm that 2-3

motor vehicles pass lights which are not green every phase.





Oh dear - Crispin's usual logic.



Firstly he says that 75% ignore *red* lights - and then he changes his story to

lights "which are not green".



He is really not bright.





--



Bertie Wooster's real name is Tom Crispin.

He uses the name Bertie Wooster so that people involved with

Young Lewisham and Greenwich Cyclists and John Ball primary school

can't see what a tosser he is.

This seems to be the junction he is quoting
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
I see 13 cars stopped at the red lights, that means that about 26 crossed on the red.

On 23/10/2012 20:03, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:52:52 +0100, Tony Dragon
wrote:

On 23/10/2012 07:16, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 01:18:32 +0100, "Partac"
wrote:



"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827

Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if
they didn't properly project manage the works.


Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the
"No Cycling" notice.

Is that another of your good friends?

I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?

Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling
and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?

You could try dialling 999.


Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.
- I had forgotten how stupid you are.

Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the
tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.

Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding
them and one scooting.

Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?

Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are
lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer
pedestrians.

5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.


Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?

Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.

What, all in the Greenwich foot tunnel? After all, this is what the thread
is all about. Or did you decide to bring in some completely irrelevant info
to provide a smokescreen(as usual)?

No, it was plankwit who started talking about the road instead of the
foot tunnel.


"Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic
signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore
the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits."

Those are your words, you brought up motorists into this thread.

Indeed, but only after Plankwit asked for a road v foot tunnel
lawbreaking comparison.


"Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then? "
Would you like to point out where 'motorists' are mentioned?
Your reply is awaited.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 13:28:23 -0700 (PDT), francis
wrote:

On Tuesday, October 23, 2012 8:22:41 PM UTC+1, Judith wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 20:06:19 +0100, Bertie Wooster

wrote:



On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 19:50:02 +0100, Tony Dragon

wrote:



On 22/10/2012 18:55, Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:29:59 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR

wrote:



On 22/10/2012 16:43, Mrcheerful wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:47:21 +0100, Judith

wrote:



On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:20:25 +0100, Bertie Wooster

wrote:



On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:14:50 +0100, Judith

wrote:



On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 09:23:41 +0100, Bertie Wooster

wrote:



And my good friend Anthony Austin is interviewed...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-20017827



Greenwich Cyclists warned Greenwich Council this would happen if

they didn't properly project manage the works.





Spot the knob at 49 seconds getting on his bike, just after the

"No Cycling" notice.



Is that another of your good friends?



I see it is called a "Foot Tunnel" - any idea why?



Do you know if cyclists are actually breaking a by-law by cycling

and what the penalties are? How does one go about reporting them?



You could try dialling 999.





Sorry - I was hoping for a sensible comment.

- I had forgotten how stupid you are.



Odd - there is about ten seconds of footage of "cyclists" in the

tunnel - and 2 out of the six in the tunnel are cycling.



Most odd. I counted 17 cyclists, 12 walking with their bikes, 4 riding

them and one scooting.



Is that typical - 33% - or is it usually more?



Yes - it's fairly typical. Cycling rates tend to drop when there are

lots of pedestrians using the tunnel, and rise when there are fewer

pedestrians.



5 out of 17 breaking the law is still very near a third of the cyclists.





Much lower rate of law breaking than on the roads then?



Yes. My observations are that 66 - 75% of motorists ignore red traffic

signals, and according to the SafeSpeed website, 57% of drivers ignore

the 70mph limits and 58% of drivers ignore the 30mph limits.







Lets think about that, according to you only one third (aprox) of

motorists stop at red lights, if that was true there would be thousands

of collisions every day at light controlled junctions.

As that is not the case your observations must be wrong.



Not at all.



Casual observations at the A2212/A20 junction indeed confirm that 2-3

motor vehicles pass lights which are not green every phase.





Oh dear - Crispin's usual logic.



Firstly he says that 75% ignore *red* lights - and then he changes his story to

lights "which are not green".



He is really not bright.





--



Bertie Wooster's real name is Tom Crispin.

He uses the name Bertie Wooster so that people involved with

Young Lewisham and Greenwich Cyclists and John Ball primary school

can't see what a tosser he is.

This seems to be the junction he is quoting
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Hehehehe.

I see someone who can't link to Google Streetview.

http://goo.gl/maps/aV2gB
I see three motor vehicles who haven't stopped at red and have
progressed into an ASL reservoir.

http://goo.gl/maps/7WmBC
I see another two.

http://goo.gl/maps/C1Kw3
And another one.

http://goo.gl/maps/4TTS3
And another two.

http://goo.gl/maps/ZlekC
And another two.

That's ten suspected traffic light contraventions.

I see 13 cars stopped at the red lights, that means that about 26 crossed on the red.

Really. Are you sure it's that many? Typically I see one or two cars
stopped at a red lights and other vehicles stopped behind those one or
two cars.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:46:46 -0700 (PDT), M Wicks
wrote:

On Oct 22, 8:39*pm, Peter Turtill wrote:
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:31:59 +0100, "Mrcheerful"

wrote:
There is a bye law specifically prohibiting the riding of bicycles through
the greenwich foot tunnel.
The relevant acts are dated 1855, 1897 and 1903 and called :
The Thames tunnel (greenwich to Millwall) Act 1897 and the Metropolis
Management act 1855. *One or both of these were updated in 1903.

Section 3 States: No person shall ride a bicycle, tricycle or other vehicle
in the tunnel.

Above taken from 'The Metropolitan Traffic Manual' by Carrol Romer

There are also similar laws about cycling or even driving on Footpaths
(as opposed to footways, pavements etc) but nobody enforces the laws
and even if you take a complaint to the police it will not result in
action against anyone. LA are as guilty as most where I live as they
have even built car parks on Footpaths:-)

Aren't you the person Judith doesn't like?

That prat is in my killfile. I know him as Anthony Bournes, long time
troll who thinks I shagged his wife.

pete

On 24/10/2012 00:58, Peter Turtill wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:46:46 -0700 (PDT), M Wicks
Aren't you the person Judith doesn't like?

That prat is in my killfile. I know him as Anthony Bournes, long time
troll who thinks I shagged his wife.

Was she worth it? :-)