Does Slow Johnny still pull the wings off flies

On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 1:35:51 p.m. UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 8:41:18 a.m. UTC-5, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/15/2021 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 17:20:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 06:11:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:

https://patternsofevidence.com/2019/...irst-alphabet/
"the first Hebrew writing is called “Old Hebrew� or “Paleo-Hebrew.�
This is known from inscriptions found from about 900 BC in the
kingdoms of Israel and Judah until the destruction of the Temple in
Jerusalem and the exile of many of Judah’s inhabitants to Babylon
around 586 BC."

More on Old Hebrew:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
Compare the Old Hebrew characters with the Hebrew characters in the
right hand column. A few a close, but most are very different.

Aramaic is the base alphabet for most of the middle eastern languages.
Notice on the chart that the Imperial Aramaic and Hebrew characters
are fairly similar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet#Letters

So, why are some characters radically different while others seem to
copied from older character sets? What happened is that the spoken
languages are not necessarily written in the written language of the
same name. Sometimes, the spoken language for a region is a common
language, such as Aramaic was in biblical times. Everyone spoke
Aramaic, but wrote it in a variety of character sets. Sometimes,
either or both the language and character set is specific to the
region, trade, politics, status, etc.

For example, the Emperor of Japan during WWII had a very different
spoke language than what was spoken by the common people. That was to
isolate the Emperor from the common people. That worked well until
the Emperor Hirohito had to give his famous "Bear the Unbearable"
speech near the end of WWII. It went out over loudspeakers and radio
to all over Japan. Nobody could understand what he was saying, so it
had to be repeated by someone else in the language of the common
people.

I'm being picky here but the language spoken by Emperor Hirohito was
not a "different language" it was simply a very ornate and honorific
version of the Japanese language, and, as you say, was rather
difficult for the "common people" to understand. But the Japanese use
several ways of talking and the words which are used basically,
indicate the differences in social level between the speaker and the
spoken to. It is quite easy, for example, to insult someone by simply
leaving out an honorific or using a lower class word.

As with English and AFAIK other languages. And languages are
dynamic.

In the 1970s a sansei girlfriend, who learned Japanese from
her family (who arrived here before The Great War) visited
Japan. Her old-timey stilted conversation was a real
impediment.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
My 1892 dictionary lists "awful" as being full of awe. It's interesting how languages or even just words change meanings. Gai is another great example.

Then there was the great vowel shift in the English language which is why Olde English is no so hard to read.

Cheers

Edit: Gay not Gai

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 10:35:48 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

My 1892 dictionary lists "awful" as being full of awe. It's interesting
how languages or even just words change meanings. Gai is another great example.

Add nice, silly, bad, sick, wicked and gnarly to your list of
radically changing meanings.
https://www.michiganradio.org/post/changing-meanings-nice-and-silly

Then there was the great vowel shift in the English language which
is why Olde English is no so hard to read.

At least English had vowels in the alphabet. Hebrew does not have any
specific characters for vowels, but instead uses accent marks
(diacritics). That's fine if the marks are present. However, every
day Hebrew leaves them out resulting in considerable creative
pronunciation.

Drivel: My parents were from Poland. Their connection with Poland
ended with WWII. What little Polish I learned was from my parents.
Years later in the USA, I tried and failed to converse with some
Polish tourists. We managed to communicate, but only with some
difficulty. Their modern Polish was from approx 1970. What I learned
from my parents was from 1939.

All these communications problems might be solved if people would read
dictionaries. However, that won't work because a dictionary has far
too many characters and no plot.

Of course, cycling seems to be quite good at butchering the language
and creating new buzzwords:
https://www.roadbikerider.com/cycling-lingo-slang-definition-list/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_cycling
https://usacycling.org/article/cycling-terminology
etc...
Oddly, I don't see too many acronyms, which is probably a good thing.

--
Jeff Liebermann
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 3:11:11 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:20:43 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 5:43:43 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2021 7:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:01:56 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 11:49:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Well, certainly there are various "versions" of the Bible and some of
the instructions are a bit different. "Thou shall not kill" in some
versions and "Thou shall not commit murder" in others for instance

New versions appear constantly. The latest is the MEV (Modern English
Version) which takes the KJV bible and translates the 17th century
idioms and terminology, into modern English. It was finished in 2013.
https://modernenglishversion.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_English_Version

It's the idioms that drive readers nuts. One famous example is from
WWII, when a misunderstanding of the phrase "table the motion" brought
an important military meeting to a grinding halt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)
That's just one example, and the bible is crammed full of idioms.

"Thou shalt no kill" is not sufficient in a court of law. Question
arise as to exceptions and killing what? Is it acceptable to
slaughter animals for food? Some attempts have been made to clarify
such details, usually resulting in a bible that reads like a legal
document or history book:
https://gnt.bible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Bible

Incidentally, here's a vocabulary list extracted from the KJV bible:
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tbsbibles.org/resource/collection/D1B0BDBE-CD9E-4D12-BBDD-138677F98835/Bible-Word-List-and-Reading-Plan.pdf
Most of the words and phrases on the list are in dire need of
translation to modern terms.
Another thing, regarding the Bible is that of translation. As I have
lived in a number of non-English speaking countries I have been made
aware that literal translations are frequently meaningless, if even
possible, and even worse people often use nicknames and phrases that
when literally translated are far different in meaning then what is
meant by those using them. For example, it is very common,
particularly in Bangkok, to hear a man reference "fan phom" which
literally translated is "friend me" but actually means "my wife", a
somewhat different meaning than the translation.

Given that the Jewish holy books weren't originally written in
English, or Latin, but were likely translated first into Greek, and
then into Latin and then into English the chances of misinterpreting a
word or phrase, or even a loyal advocate of one group or another
simply inserting a totally new word into his copy seems more than
likely.

The Torah or "law" handed down to Moses was in Aramaic. Only scholars could read it for centuries. This was eventually translated from several languages into Latin and then the Bible was only available to priests and monks and the like and again, only scholar could read it. During the reformation the Anglo-Saxons wanted a bible that everyone could read and have and at THAT point it was translated into what passed for Saxon under Martin Luther and finally English as England became the colonial power they passed their Protestant Bible to every corner of the globe where native believers then translated it into local languages. The word "engraver" had the origin in reproducing religious texts.

Moses' Jehovah couldn't manage writing in Hebrew?

Aramaic was a written language and Hebrew was not for many centuries. There were all sorts of "gospels" since like today, people loved to speak of Jesus never having known him. So the Catholic Church had to sort through these gospels and decide which had authority and which did not. And they were all translated into Latin.
https://patternsofevidence.com/2019/...irst-alphabet/
"the first Hebrew writing is called “Old Hebrew� or “Paleo-Hebrew.�
This is known from inscriptions found from about 900 BC in the
kingdoms of Israel and Judah until the destruction of the Temple in
Jerusalem and the exile of many of Judah’s inhabitants to Babylon
around 586 BC."

Since you're the expert in a religion you know nothing about perhaps you'd like to explain to us why the Torah is written in Aramaic and is read by scholars that way to the present day?

On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 5:21:00 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 06:11:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:
https://patternsofevidence.com/2019/...irst-alphabet/
"the first Hebrew writing is called “Old Hebrew� or “Paleo-Hebrew.�
This is known from inscriptions found from about 900 BC in the
kingdoms of Israel and Judah until the destruction of the Temple in
Jerusalem and the exile of many of Judah’s inhabitants to Babylon
around 586 BC."
More on Old Hebrew:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
Compare the Old Hebrew characters with the Hebrew characters in the
right hand column. A few a close, but most are very different.

Aramaic is the base alphabet for most of the middle eastern languages.
Notice on the chart that the Imperial Aramaic and Hebrew characters
are fairly similar:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet#Letters

So, why are some characters radically different while others seem to
copied from older character sets? What happened is that the spoken
languages are not necessarily written in the written language of the
same name. Sometimes, the spoken language for a region is a common
language, such as Aramaic was in biblical times. Everyone spoke
Aramaic, but wrote it in a variety of character sets. Sometimes,
either or both the language and character set is specific to the
region, trade, politics, status, etc.

For example, the Emperor of Japan during WWII had a very different
spoke language than what was spoken by the common people. That was to
isolate the Emperor from the common people. That worked well until
the Emperor Hirohito had to give his famous "Bear the Unbearable"
speech near the end of WWII. It went out over loudspeakers and radio
to all over Japan. Nobody could understand what he was saying, so it
had to be repeated by someone else in the language of the common
people.

This kind to stratification was very common in biblical times. The
priesthood had their own language and character set. The various
merchants all spoke Aramaic, but used the written language familiar to
those with whom they were trading.

Something similar happened with the decoding of the Rosetta Stone. It
was the same proclamation written in Egyptian hieroglyphs, Coptic, and
Greek. Greek and Coptic could be read, but not the hieroglyphics.
What Champollion determined was that hieroglyphs could be read just
like Latin characters, where each symbol represents a sound in spoken
Egyptian. By substituting the similar Coptic equivalents for the
hieroglyphs, Egyptian could be read.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone#Reading_the_Rosetta_Stone

If you go to Hawaii, they say Hawaiian place names in the native
Hawaiian spoken language, but since there wasn't a written language,
they just borrowed the Latin characters and pronunciation. Same thing
in biblical times. Language and characters were fairly independent.

Modern Hebrew is also quite different from biblical Hebrew. When the
Zionist movement setup the framework for what was eventually to become
Israel, they had a problem with the language. Hebrew was the language
of the bible and was not easily converted to something that could be
used for everyday commerce. For example, it has very few technical
terms. In an effort to find a quick fix, Theodor Hertzl wanted to use
Yiddish, which is mediaeval German, as the official language of
Israel. Yiddish uses the written Hebrew alphabet, but is spoken in
German. It's much like Polish and Russian are fairly similar spoken
languages, but Polish is written using Latin characters, while Russian
uses Cyrillic (Greek) characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5MtF70xe8

Anyway, I hope this helps disconnect spoken and written languages.
My mother's name was Herz which is nothing more than one of the many spelling variations of Hertz, Hertzl , Herzle etc. which was the Austrian Royal Family. What isn't a matter of discussion is that Moses spoke Aramaic even if he could understand Hebrew. He also spoke and understood middle Egyptian and Median. Moses received not just the Ten Commandments but the Torah or "law" We have that until today. The Talmud is a scholarly interpretation of the Torah and the prophesies of Moses.

On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 2:29:19 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 3:11:11 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:20:43 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 5:43:43 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2021 7:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:01:56 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 11:49:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Well, certainly there are various "versions" of the Bible and some of
the instructions are a bit different. "Thou shall not kill" in some
versions and "Thou shall not commit murder" in others for instance

New versions appear constantly. The latest is the MEV (Modern English
Version) which takes the KJV bible and translates the 17th century
idioms and terminology, into modern English. It was finished in 2013.
https://modernenglishversion.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_English_Version

It's the idioms that drive readers nuts. One famous example is from
WWII, when a misunderstanding of the phrase "table the motion" brought
an important military meeting to a grinding halt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)
That's just one example, and the bible is crammed full of idioms..

"Thou shalt no kill" is not sufficient in a court of law. Question
arise as to exceptions and killing what? Is it acceptable to
slaughter animals for food? Some attempts have been made to clarify
such details, usually resulting in a bible that reads like a legal
document or history book:
https://gnt.bible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Bible

Incidentally, here's a vocabulary list extracted from the KJV bible:
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tbsbibles.org/resource/collection/D1B0BDBE-CD9E-4D12-BBDD-138677F98835/Bible-Word-List-and-Reading-Plan.pdf
Most of the words and phrases on the list are in dire need of
translation to modern terms.
Another thing, regarding the Bible is that of translation. As I have
lived in a number of non-English speaking countries I have been made
aware that literal translations are frequently meaningless, if even
possible, and even worse people often use nicknames and phrases that
when literally translated are far different in meaning then what is
meant by those using them. For example, it is very common,
particularly in Bangkok, to hear a man reference "fan phom" which
literally translated is "friend me" but actually means "my wife", a
somewhat different meaning than the translation.

Given that the Jewish holy books weren't originally written in
English, or Latin, but were likely translated first into Greek, and
then into Latin and then into English the chances of misinterpreting a
word or phrase, or even a loyal advocate of one group or another
simply inserting a totally new word into his copy seems more than
likely.

The Torah or "law" handed down to Moses was in Aramaic. Only scholars could read it for centuries. This was eventually translated from several languages into Latin and then the Bible was only available to priests and monks and the like and again, only scholar could read it. During the reformation the Anglo-Saxons wanted a bible that everyone could read and have and at THAT point it was translated into what passed for Saxon under Martin Luther and finally English as England became the colonial power they passed their Protestant Bible to every corner of the globe where native believers then translated it into local languages. The word "engraver" had the origin in reproducing religious texts.

Moses' Jehovah couldn't manage writing in Hebrew?

Aramaic was a written language and Hebrew was not for many centuries. There were all sorts of "gospels" since like today, people loved to speak of Jesus never having known him. So the Catholic Church had to sort through these gospels and decide which had authority and which did not. And they were all translated into Latin.
https://patternsofevidence.com/2019/...irst-alphabet/
"the first Hebrew writing is called “Old Hebrew� or “Paleo-Hebrew.�
This is known from inscriptions found from about 900 BC in the
kingdoms of Israel and Judah until the destruction of the Temple in
Jerusalem and the exile of many of Judah’s inhabitants to Babylon
around 586 BC."
Since you're the expert in a religion you know nothing about perhaps you'd like to explain to us why the Torah is written in Aramaic and is read by scholars that way to the present day?

Uh, Tom, it was written in Hebrew. Google it. I know this from going to friend sons' Bar Mitzvahs and seen those stressed out boys struggle through their Hebrew Torah reading.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 8:06:06 PM UTC-8, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 20:34:41 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:58:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/14/2021 6:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I suspect that the next translation of the bible will be into text
message abbreviations and acronyms, which is the common language of
todays youth:
https://www.webopedia.com/reference/text-message-abbreviations/

Long ago I read a science fiction novel (probably by Heinlein) that
featured some sort of secret society. As I recall, to be inducted one
needed a high degree of intelligence; but once inducted, trainees
learned a new language, one that was heavily abbreviated. The claim was
that we think by internal use of language, so learning a language whose
information was very dense (in terms of ideas per syllable) allowed much
faster processing of data - i.e. faster and more efficient thinking.

I read the same story, but can't recall the name or author. I did
some random Googling for clues, but can't recall enough of the story
to construct a working key word search. As I vaguely recall, my first
thoughts were that high speed thinking was of marginal value because
it also accelerates one's rate of making mistakes and reduces the
available time to consider side effects and "what can go wrong"
thoughts after the high speed decisions are reached. While one can
probably learn to communicate at high speeds, there's no guarantee
that they will also think at high speeds.
Found it! It's _Gulf_ by Robert A. Heinlein.

Wikipedia says that the story was written after the table of contents
for the magazine was composed, which explains why it fits its title
very loosely.

I was never able to understand why do many writers visualized a race superior to humans when the ultimate thing made by the hand of God himself with all of his foibles is the human being.

On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 2:59:14 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, January 16, 2021 at 2:29:19 PM UTC-8, wrote:
On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 3:11:11 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:20:43 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 5:43:43 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2021 7:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:01:56 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 11:49:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Well, certainly there are various "versions" of the Bible and some of
the instructions are a bit different. "Thou shall not kill" in some
versions and "Thou shall not commit murder" in others for instance

New versions appear constantly. The latest is the MEV (Modern English
Version) which takes the KJV bible and translates the 17th century
idioms and terminology, into modern English. It was finished in 2013.
https://modernenglishversion.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_English_Version

It's the idioms that drive readers nuts. One famous example is from
WWII, when a misunderstanding of the phrase "table the motion" brought
an important military meeting to a grinding halt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)
That's just one example, and the bible is crammed full of idioms.

"Thou shalt no kill" is not sufficient in a court of law. Question
arise as to exceptions and killing what? Is it acceptable to
slaughter animals for food? Some attempts have been made to clarify
such details, usually resulting in a bible that reads like a legal
document or history book:
https://gnt.bible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Bible

Incidentally, here's a vocabulary list extracted from the KJV bible:
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tbsbibles.org/resource/collection/D1B0BDBE-CD9E-4D12-BBDD-138677F98835/Bible-Word-List-and-Reading-Plan.pdf
Most of the words and phrases on the list are in dire need of
translation to modern terms.
Another thing, regarding the Bible is that of translation. As I have
lived in a number of non-English speaking countries I have been made
aware that literal translations are frequently meaningless, if even
possible, and even worse people often use nicknames and phrases that
when literally translated are far different in meaning then what is
meant by those using them. For example, it is very common,
particularly in Bangkok, to hear a man reference "fan phom" which
literally translated is "friend me" but actually means "my wife", a
somewhat different meaning than the translation.

Given that the Jewish holy books weren't originally written in
English, or Latin, but were likely translated first into Greek, and
then into Latin and then into English the chances of misinterpreting a
word or phrase, or even a loyal advocate of one group or another
simply inserting a totally new word into his copy seems more than
likely.

The Torah or "law" handed down to Moses was in Aramaic. Only scholars could read it for centuries. This was eventually translated from several languages into Latin and then the Bible was only available to priests and monks and the like and again, only scholar could read it. During the reformation the Anglo-Saxons wanted a bible that everyone could read and have and at THAT point it was translated into what passed for Saxon under Martin Luther and finally English as England became the colonial power they passed their Protestant Bible to every corner of the globe where native believers then translated it into local languages. The word "engraver" had the origin in reproducing religious texts.

Moses' Jehovah couldn't manage writing in Hebrew?

Aramaic was a written language and Hebrew was not for many centuries.. There were all sorts of "gospels" since like today, people loved to speak of Jesus never having known him. So the Catholic Church had to sort through these gospels and decide which had authority and which did not. And they were all translated into Latin.
https://patternsofevidence.com/2019/...irst-alphabet/
"the first Hebrew writing is called “Old Hebrew� or “Paleo-Hebrew.�
This is known from inscriptions found from about 900 BC in the
kingdoms of Israel and Judah until the destruction of the Temple in
Jerusalem and the exile of many of Judah’s inhabitants to Babylon
around 586 BC."
Since you're the expert in a religion you know nothing about perhaps you'd like to explain to us why the Torah is written in Aramaic and is read by scholars that way to the present day?
Uh, Tom, it was written in Hebrew. Google it. I know this from going to friend sons' Bar Mitzvahs and seen those stressed out boys struggle through their Hebrew Torah reading.
Originally old Hebrew was not a written language which is why the Torah that Moses brought down from the mountain from the burning bush was in the language that Moses was fluent in. Question: Since there was no such thing as paper at that time and papyrus could only be found near the River Nile, where did Moses get the papyrus upon which to write down the words of God directly? And where did he get the coloring with which to write? Ink was only known in China at the time.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 14:29:16 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 3:11:11 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:20:43 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 5:43:43 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/14/2021 7:20 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Thursday, January 14, 2021 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 10:01:56 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Wed, 13 Jan 2021 11:49:04 +0700, John B.
wrote:

Well, certainly there are various "versions" of the Bible and some of
the instructions are a bit different. "Thou shall not kill" in some
versions and "Thou shall not commit murder" in others for instance

New versions appear constantly. The latest is the MEV (Modern English
Version) which takes the KJV bible and translates the 17th century
idioms and terminology, into modern English. It was finished in 2013.
https://modernenglishversion.com
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_English_Version

It's the idioms that drive readers nuts. One famous example is from
WWII, when a misunderstanding of the phrase "table the motion" brought
an important military meeting to a grinding halt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_(parliamentary_procedure)
That's just one example, and the bible is crammed full of idioms.

"Thou shalt no kill" is not sufficient in a court of law. Question
arise as to exceptions and killing what? Is it acceptable to
slaughter animals for food? Some attempts have been made to clarify
such details, usually resulting in a bible that reads like a legal
document or history book:
https://gnt.bible
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_News_Bible

Incidentally, here's a vocabulary list extracted from the KJV bible:
https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tbsbibles.org/resource/collection/D1B0BDBE-CD9E-4D12-BBDD-138677F98835/Bible-Word-List-and-Reading-Plan.pdf
Most of the words and phrases on the list are in dire need of
translation to modern terms.
Another thing, regarding the Bible is that of translation. As I have
lived in a number of non-English speaking countries I have been made
aware that literal translations are frequently meaningless, if even
possible, and even worse people often use nicknames and phrases that
when literally translated are far different in meaning then what is
meant by those using them. For example, it is very common,
particularly in Bangkok, to hear a man reference "fan phom" which
literally translated is "friend me" but actually means "my wife", a
somewhat different meaning than the translation.

Given that the Jewish holy books weren't originally written in
English, or Latin, but were likely translated first into Greek, and
then into Latin and then into English the chances of misinterpreting a
word or phrase, or even a loyal advocate of one group or another
simply inserting a totally new word into his copy seems more than
likely.

The Torah or "law" handed down to Moses was in Aramaic. Only scholars could read it for centuries. This was eventually translated from several languages into Latin and then the Bible was only available to priests and monks and the like and again, only scholar could read it. During the reformation the Anglo-Saxons wanted a bible that everyone could read and have and at THAT point it was translated into what passed for Saxon under Martin Luther and finally English as England became the colonial power they passed their Protestant Bible to every corner of the globe where native believers then translated it into local languages. The word "engraver" had the origin in reproducing religious texts.

Moses' Jehovah couldn't manage writing in Hebrew?

Aramaic was a written language and Hebrew was not for many centuries. There were all sorts of "gospels" since like today, people loved to speak of Jesus never having known him. So the Catholic Church had to sort through these gospels and decide which had authority and which did not. And they were all translated into Latin.
https://patternsofevidence.com/2019/...irst-alphabet/
"the first Hebrew writing is called “Old Hebrew” or “Paleo-Hebrew.”
This is known from inscriptions found from about 900 BC in the
kingdoms of Israel and Judah until the destruction of the Temple in
Jerusalem and the exile of many of Judah’s inhabitants to Babylon
around 586 BC."

Since you're the expert in a religion you know nothing about perhaps you'd like to explain to us why the Torah is written in Aramaic and is read by scholars that way to the present day?

Hardly an expert on religion merely someone who is smart enough to
research a subject before talking about it.

For example you write, "explain to us why the Torah is written in
Aramaic"

My reference states "The Torah is written in Hebrew, the oldest of
Jewish languages. It is also known as Torat Moshe, the Law of Moses.
The Torah is the first section or first five books of the Jewish
bible. However, Tanach is more commonly used to describe the whole of
Jewish scriptures."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/relig...ts/torah.shtml

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:00:41 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 8:06:06 PM UTC-8, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 20:34:41 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:58:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/14/2021 6:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I suspect that the next translation of the bible will be into text
message abbreviations and acronyms, which is the common language of
todays youth:
https://www.webopedia.com/reference/text-message-abbreviations/

Long ago I read a science fiction novel (probably by Heinlein) that
featured some sort of secret society. As I recall, to be inducted one
needed a high degree of intelligence; but once inducted, trainees
learned a new language, one that was heavily abbreviated. The claim was
that we think by internal use of language, so learning a language whose
information was very dense (in terms of ideas per syllable) allowed much
faster processing of data - i.e. faster and more efficient thinking.

I read the same story, but can't recall the name or author. I did
some random Googling for clues, but can't recall enough of the story
to construct a working key word search. As I vaguely recall, my first
thoughts were that high speed thinking was of marginal value because
it also accelerates one's rate of making mistakes and reduces the
available time to consider side effects and "what can go wrong"
thoughts after the high speed decisions are reached. While one can
probably learn to communicate at high speeds, there's no guarantee
that they will also think at high speeds.
Found it! It's _Gulf_ by Robert A. Heinlein.

Wikipedia says that the story was written after the table of contents
for the magazine was composed, which explains why it fits its title
very loosely.

I was never able to understand why do many writers visualized a race superior to humans when the ultimate thing made by the hand of God himself with all of his foibles is the human being.

No Tommy God did not make humans he made Adam and Eve who in turn made
the rest of humanity. And, quite obviously the blight set in very
early in the game. After all, One of their sons murdered the other
one.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:00:41 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
wrote:

On Friday, January 15, 2021 at 8:06:06 PM UTC-8, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 20:34:41 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:
On Thu, 14 Jan 2021 18:58:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 1/14/2021 6:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

I suspect that the next translation of the bible will be into text
message abbreviations and acronyms, which is the common language of
todays youth:
https://www.webopedia.com/reference/text-message-abbreviations/

Long ago I read a science fiction novel (probably by Heinlein) that
featured some sort of secret society. As I recall, to be inducted one
needed a high degree of intelligence; but once inducted, trainees
learned a new language, one that was heavily abbreviated. The claim was
that we think by internal use of language, so learning a language whose
information was very dense (in terms of ideas per syllable) allowed much
faster processing of data - i.e. faster and more efficient thinking.

I read the same story, but can't recall the name or author. I did
some random Googling for clues, but can't recall enough of the story
to construct a working key word search. As I vaguely recall, my first
thoughts were that high speed thinking was of marginal value because
it also accelerates one's rate of making mistakes and reduces the
available time to consider side effects and "what can go wrong"
thoughts after the high speed decisions are reached. While one can
probably learn to communicate at high speeds, there's no guarantee
that they will also think at high speeds.
Found it! It's _Gulf_ by Robert A. Heinlein.

Wikipedia says that the story was written after the table of contents
for the magazine was composed, which explains why it fits its title
very loosely.

I was never able to understand why do many writers visualized a race
superior to humans when the ultimate thing made by the hand of God
himself with all of his foibles is the human being.

No Tommy God did not make humans he made Adam and Eve who in turn made
the rest of humanity. And, quite obviously the blight set in very
early in the game. After all, One of their sons murdered the other
one.

If humanity is the pinnacle of all of God’s creations, it casts serious
doubt on the concept of a perfect, infallible God.