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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
On Jun 6, 5:18*pm, "Dave Lee" wrote:
... an advanced degree in pharmacology? When I was riding regularly (90's) I really enjoyed buying video's of the Tdf, Giro d'Italia, Paris-Roubaix, etc. and on late weekend nights plugging one in with a glass of wine and just watching it for an hour or two. I can't get enthused anymore - now it is all about hematocrits, testosterone levels, etc. Back to golf, I guess. Fan, yes. Rider, no. Take a few minutes, there's some excellent "get real" material here, free for the reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France I confess, I just scanned that one before bookmarking; they seem to have omitted the "PDM incident" of 1991. Maybe I just missed it, among the many stories? Let us have a "complete" drug testing regimen, as seen in cycling, with OOC surprise tests, compulsory 365 days/year notification of location, blood profiles, the whole nine yards for any sport, most assuredly including "golf", and see what we find! BTW: Is it "cheating" to have eye surgery so you can see the course and the ball better? --D-y |
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#2
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
On 06/07/2011 12:01 PM, Dave Lee wrote:
If it is illegal to have the specified eye surgery but many golfers have it anyway, then you are back to the cycling/doping problem. I disagree. Please consider this correction: "If it is illegal to have the specified eye surgery but all contending golfers have it anyway, then you are back to the cycling/doping problem." It's not possible to demonstrate an unlevel playing field. There are regulars here who used to assert that Ullrich, Floyd Landis, Hamilton, Basso etc. were clean, but it was generally done to support their contention that LA benefitted from an unfair advantage. Later events proved these assertions incorrect. |
#3
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
On 06/07/2011 01:24 PM, Dave Lee wrote:
It is also impossible to determine if all contending golfers 'have it anyway' (eye surgery). Really? If you follow it a while you get a feel for it. Let's try this: I'll list the top finishers from 2005 and you tell me which ones you think were clean. Here's the list: 1 Lance Armstrong 2 Ivan Basso 3 Jan Ullrich 4 Francisco Mancebo 5 Alexandre Vinokourov 6 Levi Leipheimer 7 Michael Rasmussen It is completely without cynicism that I claim Armstrong was no dirtier than the rest of these guys. I don't see any logical basis for disputing that. |
#4
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
"--D-y" schreef in bericht ... On Jun 6, 5:18 pm, "Dave Lee" wrote: ... an advanced degree in pharmacology? When I was riding regularly (90's) I really enjoyed buying video's of the Tdf, Giro d'Italia, Paris-Roubaix, etc. and on late weekend nights plugging one in with a glass of wine and just watching it for an hour or two. I can't get enthused anymore - now it is all about hematocrits, testosterone levels, etc. Back to golf, I guess. Fan, yes. Rider, no. Take a few minutes, there's some excellent "get real" material here, free for the reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France I'm afraid it's full of mistakes. For instance, Janssen, Pingeon, Ocaña and Gimondi tested positive, Thévénet admitted using corticoids, not steroids, the autopsy of Knut Enemark Jensen's body didn't show had taken amphetamine and other drugs. etc. Benjo |
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
"Dave Lee" wrote in
m: I don't have to be a pharmacology expert to watch a golf tournament - and that was my point. Did you hear something whistle past your ear just then? Anyway, Tiger Woods used a doctor who was later indicted for providing steroids to athletes. Rumors of steroid use in golf are plentiful. So I agree, you don't have to be a pharmacology expert to watch golf any more than you have to for cycling. You just have to adapt your golf mindset to cycling. Alternatively, you could just admit that you secretly like watching these juiced guys go at it because it is goddamned awesome, you just don't want to know about it. -- Bill Fred |
#6
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
In article ,
"Benjo Maso" wrote: I'm afraid it's full of mistakes. For instance, Janssen, Pingeon, Ocaña and Gimondi tested positive, Thévénet admitted using corticoids, not steroids, the autopsy of Knut Enemark Jensen's body didn't show had taken amphetamine and other drugs. etc. Technical point. Corticoids are steroids---corticosteroids. Corticosteroids are catabolic steroids. When hand wringers moan over the use of steroids it is the anabolic steroids only that are at issue; though they do not know the difference. -- Old Fritz |
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
On Jun 7, 4:49*pm, "Benjo Maso" wrote:
"--D-y" *schreef in ... On Jun 6, 5:18 pm, "Dave Lee" wrote: ... an advanced degree in pharmacology? When I was riding regularly (90's) I really enjoyed buying video's of the Tdf, Giro d'Italia, Paris-Roubaix, etc. and on late weekend nights plugging one in with a glass of wine and just watching it for an hour or two. I can't get enthused anymore - now it is all about hematocrits, testosterone levels, etc. Back to golf, I guess. Fan, yes. Rider, no. Take a few minutes, there's some excellent "get real" material here, free for the reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France I'm afraid it's full of mistakes. For instance, Janssen, Pingeon, Oca a and Gimondi tested positive, Th v net admitted using corticoids, not steroids, the autopsy of Knut Enemark Jensen's body didn't show had taken amphetamine and other drugs. etc. Thank you for reading and correcting. I humbly admit I did just scan that material, and not critically, even for my very limited "knowledge" of what's what. I hope I would have caught the Thevenet mistake, from reading Thevenet's quotes of years ago. That link was a dud; however, the concept that the 90's were somehow an era of clean & noble (etc. etc.) competition in bike racing is also a dud. --D-y |
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
On Jun 7, 4:57*pm, "Dave Lee" wrote:
ps. I think they were all doping is simple (and possibly correct). Useful - not sure what to think of that. It's useful in getting over the Lance Armstrong is Satan thing, for one. It's also useful-- speaking for myself, at least-- in coming to the realization that athletes (meaning "bike racers", because they are the worst affected) are scapegoats when their careers are taken away from them for "doping". Bad rules, bad enforcement ("the guy next to you being able to dope without much fear of being caught"), a long history of lying and deceit at all levels of the sport, from top to bottom-- that's *why* they "were all doping". --D-y |
#9
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
Dave Lee wrote:
Let me get this straight. You are equating the TW encounter with Galea with the situation with cycling. Is that your point? Fred Flintstein wrote: Gues the answer is, no, you didn't hear it. He's got a Phonak hearing aid. |
#10
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Is It Possible to be a Cycling Fan Without ...
On 6/7/2011 5:49 PM, Benjo Maso wrote:
"--D-y" schreef in bericht ... On Jun 6, 5:18 pm, "Dave Lee" wrote: ... an advanced degree in pharmacology? When I was riding regularly (90's) I really enjoyed buying video's of the Tdf, Giro d'Italia, Paris-Roubaix, etc. and on late weekend nights plugging one in with a glass of wine and just watching it for an hour or two. I can't get enthused anymore - now it is all about hematocrits, testosterone levels, etc. Back to golf, I guess. Fan, yes. Rider, no. Take a few minutes, there's some excellent "get real" material here, free for the reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France I'm afraid it's full of mistakes. For instance, Janssen, Pingeon, Ocaña and Gimondi tested positive, Thévénet admitted using corticoids, not steroids, the autopsy of Knut Enemark Jensen's body didn't show had taken amphetamine and other drugs. etc. Benjo Benjo-- Glucocorticoids are considered steroids, and unless I'm greatly mistaken, they are banned. Yes, their use in cycling is primarily anti-inflammatory rather than anabolic. I assume the rationale for the ban is that they convey the ability to ride with less pain. It doesn't explain why NSAIDS aren't banned. But I'm certainly not saying that criteria for banning a particular pharmaceutical are rational. Steve -- Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS http://www.dentaltwins.com Brooklyn, NY 718-258-5001 |
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