Jobst's The Bicycle Wheel

"John Forrest Tomlinson" wrote in message
...
To me, that book was so helpful simply in terms of its directions on
how to build a wheel. Great book for me.

Now, with the internet, that info isn't as hard to come by. When I
started building wheels, that was not the case.

Thanks.

Many of us had figured out how to build wheels properly before Jobst's
book came out, based upon common sense and copying STW (Stuff That
Worked). The cool thing about The Bicycle Wheel was that we then
understood *why* they worked. The things that we learned over time and
through experimentation all made sense.

The most-puzzling thing was that The Bicycle Wheel, in explaining things
so well, would give us pause to ponder whether it really mattered
whether a wheel stands on its spokes or not, because the wheels we were
building were holding up just find without having to figure that out.
Maybe if it had come out just a few years earlier, it could have been
the sort of thing a 16 year old would spend a lot of time thinking
about, instead of the relevance of existentialism and the meaning of
life.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Fri, 6 Mar 2009 23:52:36 -0800, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

Many of us had figured out how to build wheels properly before Jobst's
book came out, based upon common sense and copying STW (Stuff That
Worked). The cool thing about The Bicycle Wheel was that we then
understood *why* they worked. The things that we learned over time and
through experimentation all made sense.

I built my first wheel w/o the book and it worked well. I was copying
another wheel. But it took a long time - there were little tricks in
the order of doing things and how to do them that the book made faster
for me. I never worked in a bikeshop so only had limited experience
building stuff.

On Mar 6, 11:43 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
wrote:
On Mar 4, 9:07 pm, jim beam wrote:
PatTX wrote:
Keiron wrote:
:: Just sold my copy on Ebay. Got 22.50 (minus fee).
::
:: One of the very few items that i've ebayed and got more back than I
:: paid for it, In a recession too!
Strange, I bought one last year at "Half Price Books." It was remaindered,
so I thought all of his books were....
I paid $5.98 for it.
Maybe I should put it on Ebay!
Pat in TX
for a book with that many gross factual errors, and for the
misinformation it propagates, it's hard to understand why it even sells
at all.

This picture of Brandt's followers explains everything:

http://tinyurl.com/v2cbg

The Arkansas Association of Bicycle Mechanics convention?

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

Nah, more like "The formerly-whiny-underpaid-but-now-unemployed-and-
clinically-depressed Civil Engineers" convention.

BTW, the bicycle repair biz is booming in this economy! When does your
unemployment run out, Tommy?

aka Richard Malesweski wrote:
On Mar 6, 11:43 pm, Tom Sherman
wrote:
wrote:
[...]
This picture of Brandt's followers explains everything:
http://tinyurl.com/v2cbg
The Arkansas Association of Bicycle Mechanics convention?

Please honor the signature separator (i.e. "-- ").

Nah, more like "The formerly-whiny-underpaid-but-now-unemployed-and-
clinically-depressed Civil Engineers" convention.

BTW, the bicycle repair biz is booming in this economy! When does your
unemployment run out, Tommy?

I have a new job with better real compensation that I am starting in April.

My main problem right now is deciding what new bicycle or trike I want
to buy myself as a present once I move (into a nicer place than I have
been living in).

--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
LOCAL CACTUS EATS CYCLIST - datakoll

Tom Sherman wrote:
"jwbinpdx" aka Jay Beattie wrote:
[...]
I don't think that building wheels is particularly hard or mysterious,
at least in concept. The hard part is knowing how a particular modern
rim will work with a rider of a certain weight. You learn over time
that an Aerohead OC at 100kgf will not stay tight under a 200+ pound
rider unless you use spoke goop.[...]

That implies that the rim is inadequate for the load.


indeed. but you'd never know that from reading jobst's book - he thinks
you simply increase spoke tension to get a stronger wheel.

SMS wrote:
datakoll wrote:
On Mar 4, 10:07 pm, jim beam wrote:
PatTX wrote:
Keiron wrote:
:: Just sold my copy on Ebay. Got 22.50 (minus fee).
::
:: One of the very few items that i've ebayed and got more back than I
:: paid for it, In a recession too!
Strange, I bought one last year at "Half Price Books." It was
remaindered,
so I thought all of his books were....
I paid $5.98 for it.
Maybe I should put it on Ebay!
Pat in TX
for a book with that many gross factual errors, and for the
misinformation it propagates, it's hard to understand why it even sells
at all.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Beamer, we await the first chapter.

He could start by pointing out a single factual error in the Jobst's book.

er, how about the bit about eliminating metal fatigue in a material that
has no endurance limit? how about misattributing rim cracking on
anodizing? how about his spectacular "residual stress" theory that
fails to observe actual failure mechanisms? how about failing to
account for spoke stiffness in tensiometer math? how about a wheel
"standing" on its spokes when in reality we're simply observing rim
distortion? how about misunderstanding pre-tensioned structures thus
mistakenly advocating spoke tension "as high as the rim can bear"? how
about... jeepers, this is boring.

SMS wrote:
P. Chisholm wrote:

This is a good book as well, interesting read.

http://www.amazon.com/Art-Wheelbuild.../dp/0964983532


They're two different animals. Jobst's book is much more into the
dynamics of how wheels work,

"dynamics"? it contains no such thing. you evidently don't know the
meaning of the word.



and less an instruction manual on wheel
building (though it's helpful there as well).

the only thing is is good for is lacing instructions. but even that
omits info on how to align a hub label with a rim.



The two texts compliment
each other. Even _The Art of Wheelbuilding_ leaves out a lot of
practical information.

wrote:
Gene Daniels wrote:

Jay Beattie sez... materials

the 'basic' builders moves are in Brandt and Brown : all triangles
are to be identical understanding the process' finesses goes beyond
wheel builder's literacy and abilities for teaching using
language... that's not a conclusion only a consideration strikes me
as a 4D chess board following shipment not theory

Anticipating misinterpretations, I gave copies of the text, before
publication, to my 10 and 12 year old sons

ah, now we know the origins of your claimed "peer review" process!


on separate occasions along
with components for front and rear wheels, instructing them only to
ask for help if they got stuck... They didn't.

They each built a pair of wheels that lasted for many years until the
rear hubs were recently replaced by Shimano 7-speed cassette hubs for
lack of parts for the 5-speed Campagnolo hubs of their first build. I
believe 2-D line drawings contain clearer information than exploded
view, 3=D drawings, popular today.

i believe you should correct the gross factual errors in your book and
compensate people whose equipment you have destroyed thereby.

datakoll wrote:
well gee whiz. Line drawings are beautiful, communicative
educational....
no problem.
but seriously and not thinned skinned abt being antiquo
can the Brandt book process explore rounding an elliptical wheel and
taking out 2-3 radial bumps as weel as an animation perhaps extended
from the Brown approach ?
the animation brings sight neurons into play, activating physical
resposes in the viewer, linking animation to actual work.
where static drawings and english rely on language
where language is not the process
the animation is

This should get you started:
http://www.knittinghelp.com/videos/advanced-techniques

Some differences may be encountered
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

wrote:
[...]
This picture of Brandt's followers explains everything:
http://tinyurl.com/v2cbg
The Arkansas Association of Bicycle Mechanics convention?

Tom Sherman
aka Richard Malesweski wrote:
Nah, more like "The formerly-whiny-underpaid-but-now-unemployed-and-
clinically-depressed Civil Engineers" convention.
BTW, the bicycle repair biz is booming in this economy! When does your
unemployment run out, Tommy?

Tom Sherman wrote:
I have a new job with better real compensation that I am starting in April.
My main problem right now is deciding what new bicycle or trike I want
to buy myself as a present once I move (into a nicer place than I have
been living in).

From lake-effect-snow eastern Wisconsin to the eden of central Wisconsin?
Or further?
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971