A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old September 12th 18, 01:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On 9/11/2018 7:00 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:48:53 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 10/09/2018 7:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:55:00 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 09/09/2018 2:31 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 00:02:17 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are
the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding
probably at night with no lights.

Or the driver of the motor vehicle was drunk or nearly so.

As for homeless/nearly homeless and/or riding at night without lights,
you are reading into the small amount of information Jute provided.
Perhaps there is more detail in the NHTSA link he provided, which I have
not yet looked at.

A number of surveys of bicycle accidents indicate that as many as
half, or more, involve the cyclist disobeying one traffic regulation,
or another and reports from autopsies of cyclists killed in accidents
showed that (in New York) as many as 21% had been drinking (6% of auto
drivers who were involved in a auto - bicycle accident had been
drinking).

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...v22-story.html
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/

It might be noted that these reports are not of the "Well, it is
estimated..." or "It seems as though...", but are statistics, for
example:

"in 2011, officers determined fault in 701 crashes between a bicyclist
and a motorist in which a cyclist was hurt or killed, according to the
reports, submitted to California's Statewide Integrated Traffic
Records System. Cyclists were found to be the party most at fault in
390 of those crashes, or 56 percent of the time, the records show."

It seems odd, to say the least, that these facts, and facts they are,
are never mentioned by bicycle safety advocates.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy... and he is us."
(at least 56% of the time)


Why are you surprised that with auto/bicycle accidents in one study it
indicates that the fault is mostly evenly distributed? I don't get your
point.

Accidents happen. Painting cyclists that are victims of accidents as
incompetent drunks serves what purpose?


You seem to have missed the point completely.

In the California study more then 56% of the accidents were found to
be the fault of the cyclist not complying with the traffic laws. In
the New York study some 21% of the cyclists who died in accidents were
found to have been drinking.

Had all cyclists obeyed traffic laws and not ingested alcohol the
number of bicycle deaths would have decreased by a considerable
number. Perhaps as many as half or more.


You seemed to miss my point. If all road users obeyed traffic laws and
didn't ingest alcohol the number of road deaths would be decreased by a
considerable number. Why single out cyclists?


Well, we are on a bicycle site and there is considerable fear and
loathing expressed about all the close calls and dangers of riding a
bicycle, thus my discussing things that appear to concern cyclists.


The other point was that only 6% of drivers in auto-bicycle accidents
had been drinking, or in other words nearly three times the number of
bicyclists were boozed up as the drivers. Blaming the auto for any and
all bicycle accidents, as seems to be the norm, just doesn't represent
reality.


What universe do you inhabit where motorists are blamed for all cycling
accidents? Here it is actually the exact opposite. Motorists are
rarely even charged. The usual "cause" is the motorist didn't see the
cyclist. The usual result is the cyclist is killed and the driver is
taken to the hospital for shock.

Where have you been? This site has, since I've been reading it never
mentioned that there just might have been some reason that a motorist
is not at blame any time that a bicycle/auto crash is mentioned.

Even the idiot that fell asleep with his cruise control on and hit 6
women, killing 3 or them was not prosecuted.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/quebec-police...lists-1.512664

Why, it might even be found that obeying traffic laws and not drinking
would save more lives then wearing a Styrofoam hat.


Isn't one straw man per thread enough?


You don't seem to get the point at all, or deliberately avoid it. I
read here innumerable arguments that a Styrofoam bicycle helmet will
protect you. I am simply pointing out that if all cyclists were to
obey traffic regulations and not consume alcohol before riding that
their might not even require a helmet to feel safe.


OTOH, the guys with sufficient alcohol in their system probably feel
VERY safe!

"Hold my beer and watch this!"


--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #42  
Old September 12th 18, 04:00 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 5:03:50 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/11/2018 7:00 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 11 Sep 2018 08:48:53 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 10/09/2018 7:15 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 10 Sep 2018 08:55:00 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 09/09/2018 2:31 AM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Sun, 09 Sep 2018 00:02:17 -0500, Tim McNamara
wrote:

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 16:24:45 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I take that to indicate that a large number of bicyclists deaths are
the homeless or nearly homeless, drunk or nearly so, and riding
probably at night with no lights.

Or the driver of the motor vehicle was drunk or nearly so.

As for homeless/nearly homeless and/or riding at night without lights,
you are reading into the small amount of information Jute provided..
Perhaps there is more detail in the NHTSA link he provided, which I have
not yet looked at.

A number of surveys of bicycle accidents indicate that as many as
half, or more, involve the cyclist disobeying one traffic regulation,
or another and reports from autopsies of cyclists killed in accidents
showed that (in New York) as many as 21% had been drinking (6% of auto
drivers who were involved in a auto - bicycle accident had been
drinking).

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...v22-story.html
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-bike-deaths/

It might be noted that these reports are not of the "Well, it is
estimated..." or "It seems as though...", but are statistics, for
example:

"in 2011, officers determined fault in 701 crashes between a bicyclist
and a motorist in which a cyclist was hurt or killed, according to the
reports, submitted to California's Statewide Integrated Traffic
Records System. Cyclists were found to be the party most at fault in
390 of those crashes, or 56 percent of the time, the records show."

It seems odd, to say the least, that these facts, and facts they are,
are never mentioned by bicycle safety advocates.

As Pogo said, "we have met the enemy... and he is us."
(at least 56% of the time)


Why are you surprised that with auto/bicycle accidents in one study it
indicates that the fault is mostly evenly distributed? I don't get your
point.

Accidents happen. Painting cyclists that are victims of accidents as
incompetent drunks serves what purpose?


You seem to have missed the point completely.

In the California study more then 56% of the accidents were found to
be the fault of the cyclist not complying with the traffic laws. In
the New York study some 21% of the cyclists who died in accidents were
found to have been drinking.

Had all cyclists obeyed traffic laws and not ingested alcohol the
number of bicycle deaths would have decreased by a considerable
number. Perhaps as many as half or more.


You seemed to miss my point. If all road users obeyed traffic laws and
didn't ingest alcohol the number of road deaths would be decreased by a
considerable number. Why single out cyclists?


Well, we are on a bicycle site and there is considerable fear and
loathing expressed about all the close calls and dangers of riding a
bicycle, thus my discussing things that appear to concern cyclists.


The other point was that only 6% of drivers in auto-bicycle accidents
had been drinking, or in other words nearly three times the number of
bicyclists were boozed up as the drivers. Blaming the auto for any and
all bicycle accidents, as seems to be the norm, just doesn't represent
reality.


What universe do you inhabit where motorists are blamed for all cycling
accidents? Here it is actually the exact opposite. Motorists are
rarely even charged. The usual "cause" is the motorist didn't see the
cyclist. The usual result is the cyclist is killed and the driver is
taken to the hospital for shock.

Where have you been? This site has, since I've been reading it never
mentioned that there just might have been some reason that a motorist
is not at blame any time that a bicycle/auto crash is mentioned.

Even the idiot that fell asleep with his cruise control on and hit 6
women, killing 3 or them was not prosecuted.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/quebec-police...lists-1.512664

Why, it might even be found that obeying traffic laws and not drinking
would save more lives then wearing a Styrofoam hat.


Isn't one straw man per thread enough?


You don't seem to get the point at all, or deliberately avoid it. I
read here innumerable arguments that a Styrofoam bicycle helmet will
protect you. I am simply pointing out that if all cyclists were to
obey traffic regulations and not consume alcohol before riding that
their might not even require a helmet to feel safe.


OTOH, the guys with sufficient alcohol in their system probably feel
VERY safe!

"Hold my beer and watch this!"


Working ambulance, the drunk drivers usually lived. The other guy(s) died except in occasional one-car accidents. I remember seeing some dead drunk who got cooked in a multi-car accident and thinking finally the drunk got it. BTW, burned people stink -- and yet you can still smell the alcohol. I transported a lot of drunk drivers from one hospital to another in handcuffs. The cops would cuff them to the stretcher and then the bed at the hospital..

-- Jay Beattie.



  #43  
Old September 15th 18, 02:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 5:05:23 PM UTC+1, wrote:

the last refunding bill in what? 1983?


I just want to point out that this happened under President Reagan, who spent a part of his life as basically a union rep for actors, and who was thus aware of the needs of those who can no longer work. Most people don't remember now, but Reagan was abused by both the Left and at least some of the conservatives (the others followed Bill Buckley, who from friendship was happy to cut Reagan a break, though what he said was that Reagan was the most conservative candidate to stand a chance of winning -- before that he was on principle against anybody even slightly pink-tinged). Reagan, very much like Trump, wanted these social safety nets to work for those who really needed them, and didn't buy into the ultra-conservative position that they were fundamentally unconstitutional.

Personally, I think the Republicans gave a collective sigh of relief when they discovered Mr Trump wasn't going to expose them to all the electoral bother of reforming Social Security; they talk the talk but they don't want to walk the walk.

AJ
  #44  
Old September 17th 18, 09:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 6:55:24 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 5:05:23 PM UTC+1, wrote:

the last refunding bill in what? 1983?


I just want to point out that this happened under President Reagan, who spent a part of his life as basically a union rep for actors, and who was thus aware of the needs of those who can no longer work. Most people don't remember now, but Reagan was abused by both the Left and at least some of the conservatives (the others followed Bill Buckley, who from friendship was happy to cut Reagan a break, though what he said was that Reagan was the most conservative candidate to stand a chance of winning -- before that he was on principle against anybody even slightly pink-tinged). Reagan, very much like Trump, wanted these social safety nets to work for those who really needed them, and didn't buy into the ultra-conservative position that they were fundamentally unconstitutional.

Personally, I think the Republicans gave a collective sigh of relief when they discovered Mr Trump wasn't going to expose them to all the electoral bother of reforming Social Security; they talk the talk but they don't want to walk the walk.

AJ


Andre, just remember that ultra-conservatives as a group have almost no power in any government. Trump is actually quite a moderate for all of the media lies about him.

What the left is terrified about is that there are presently 17 sealed indictments about members of the Deep State that were placed by Grand Juries. This entire thing is about to blow up in the Deep State's face. Particularly since the emails and other communications and inter-governmental communications is being released to Judicial Watch's law suits under the Freedom of Information Act. Mueller was already putting together a team to attack any possible Republican winner even before Trump was the chosen candidate.

I don't think that we need worry about SS or even Medicare for the foreseeable future though it may turn out to be necessary because the numbers of retired and the growing lifespan can temporarily out-distance the number of contributing workers. These programs were designed to be self supporting and not socialist programs so there are NOT any questions of Constitutionality..
  #45  
Old September 17th 18, 11:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 454
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 6:31:22 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:


Yes, we all stick together. In fact, three of us our typing right now --
the other two are handling the shift key and punctuation.


You need to hire another one for spelling, too...

In the best of times, American Federal prosecutions strike those of us
who live in civilized countries as not very much different from
Stalin's show trials, but the criminalization of political differences
in a presumed democracy is an excess too far. You're just old enough to
remember Greece under the colonels; you should think on the parallels.


... as their last name's correct spelling is [-ulos].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papadopoulos_(disambiguation)


Sorry, Mr Papadopoulos!


If I googled correctly, Jim Pap. was posting on rbt ... merely 22 years ago.
  #46  
Old September 18th 18, 03:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,538
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On 9/17/2018 6:21 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 6:31:22 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:


Yes, we all stick together. In fact, three of us our typing right now --
the other two are handling the shift key and punctuation.

You need to hire another one for spelling, too...

In the best of times, American Federal prosecutions strike those of us
who live in civilized countries as not very much different from
Stalin's show trials, but the criminalization of political differences
in a presumed democracy is an excess too far. You're just old enough to
remember Greece under the colonels; you should think on the parallels.

... as their last name's correct spelling is [-ulos].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papadopoulos_(disambiguation)


Sorry, Mr Papadopoulos!


If I googled correctly, Jim Pap. was posting on rbt ... merely 22 years ago.


Jim has done some really good technical research work on bicycling. He's
an entirely different guy from George.

See
https://www.nature.com/news/the-bicy...matics-1.20281
for example. He's a contributing author to the latest edition of
_Bicycling Science_ by Wilson.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #47  
Old September 18th 18, 07:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 454
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 9/17/2018 6:21 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Monday, September 17, 2018, Sepp Ruf wrote:
jbeattie wrote:


Yes, we all stick together. In fact, three of us our typing right now --
the other two are handling the shift key and punctuation.

You need to hire another one for spelling, too...

In the best of times, American Federal prosecutions strike those of us
who live in civilized countries as not very much different from
Stalin's show trials, but the criminalization of political differences
in a presumed democracy is an excess too far. You're just old enough to
remember Greece under the colonels; you should think on the parallels.

... as their last name's correct spelling is [-ulos].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Papadopoulos_(disambiguation)

Sorry, Mr Papadopoulos!


If I googled correctly, Jim Pap. was posting on rbt ... merely 22 years ago.


Jim has done some really good technical research work on bicycling. He's
an entirely different guy from George.


Of course. I mentioned Jim just in case any of us anarcho-communist hippie
sympathizers and bolshie conspirators felt uncomfortable apologizing to
either G-Pap.



--
****** CELEBRATING 50 YEARS OF EUROPEAN PROGRESS ******
Isichia, Taxis kai Asfalia (1968)
Sciatica, Tax hikes, and Asylumpenproletariat (2018)
  #48  
Old September 19th 18, 11:23 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 2:26:13 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote to Jay Beattie:

For extra points, explain how Lois Lerner is not the deep
state incarnate. I'll wait.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


You'll be waiting for a long time, Andrew. The problem is that the American Left has been doing this vicious and immoral crap for so long -- Bobby Kennedy set the tone and his fat little brother industrialized the process of abusing power -- that they think Lois Lerner persecuting her president's opponents is how a civil servant *should* behave. They just don't know any better, and they don't want to know better. And when you corner them and they have no answers to obvious abuses -- and abusers like Janet Reno and Lois Lerner (fine examples of feminist empowerment, those two!) -- they scoff and sneer about "reptilians".

AJ
The only reptilian slime I see in this thread was dragged in by Reno and Lerner


  #49  
Old September 19th 18, 11:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 1:59:57 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
The better argument is that whatever happened, it was 35 years ago.


Careful, Jay. They'll blackball you at the Democratic Club for standing up for Kavanaugh.

AJ
Heh-heh
  #50  
Old September 19th 18, 12:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Official pedal cyclist road deaths in 2016 ex DOT/NHTSA/FARS(Fatality Analysis Reporting System)

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:23:52 AM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 2:26:13 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote to Jay Beattie:

For extra points, explain how Lois Lerner is not the deep
state incarnate. I'll wait.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


You'll be waiting for a long time, Andrew. The problem is that the American Left has been doing this vicious and immoral crap for so long -- Bobby Kennedy set the tone and his fat little brother industrialized the process of abusing power -- that they think Lois Lerner persecuting her president's opponents is how a civil servant *should* behave. They just don't know any better, and they don't want to know better. And when you corner them and they have no answers to obvious abuses -- and abusers like Janet Reno and Lois Lerner (fine examples of feminist empowerment, those two!) -- they scoff and sneer about "reptilians".

AJ
The only reptilian slime I see in this thread was dragged in by Reno and Lerner


On the other hand, since so many of the Left are lawyers (Reno and Lerner too), the problem might go away while we wait:

"You can, for example, automate a lot of what lawyers do. LawGeex put its AI lawyer up against a team of big-shot human lawyers (representing big companies such as Goldman Sachs and fancy law firms such as Alston & Bird) and asked them to review five nondisclosure agreements, which are common as dirt in business transactions. The AI stomped the meat. The AI was 94 percent accurate in its work, as opposed to 85 percent for the human lawyers. To produce those inferior results, the human lawyers took beĀ*tween 51 and 156 minutes each to complete the task.

"The AI took 26 seconds."

Surveillance State by KEVIN D. WILLIAMSON
Full article at
https://www.nationalreview.com/magaz...omated-emails/

Andre Jute
Ride tall!
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest quarter: Drop in road deaths, but cyclist casualties rise. Mrcheerful UK 118 March 2nd 14 11:25 PM
Road deaths down, cyclists deaths up. Mrcheerful[_2_] UK 4 July 1st 11 05:07 PM
NHTSA publishes 2007 bike fatality data Frank Krygowski[_2_] General 19 December 22nd 08 02:39 AM
cyclist fatality statistics gds General 44 December 20th 06 06:59 PM
Another Cyclist Fatality (in Canada) Gags Australia 0 May 14th 05 11:08 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.