Senior Olympics

"Child" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...


the same could be said for all christians - religious jews are
responsible
for there being any christians in the world today!

When the French are no longer Christian, there will still be a France
and
the French (if they are not overwhelmed by the Muslims). Christianity is
not
necessary for the French to survive because they forged a nation long
ago.
However, that is not true of the Jew until recently when they forged the
nation of Israel. The Jew has survived down through the ages without a
nation precisely because of their strong religion. Without their very
peculiar religion (monotheism) the Jews would have passed into history
long
ago.

the secular jews were instrumental in the forming of israel. we obviously
believe its necessary too, although sometimes i am not so sure.

That is correct, but the orthodox Jews will be the salvation of Israel.


The Jews are the most remarkable people in the history of the world.
They
have survived down through the ages when all other ancient peoples have
perished or been absorbed by other peoples and lost to history. And it
was
all due to their remarkable religion and to their being the people of
the
Book. Without those two vital elements, they would have gone the way of
the
ancient Philistines.


It has to do with the values that jews have, as part of their religion, I
think.

Yes, but those values derive solely from their religion. And that religion
is based on the written word. It is those written words regarded as sacred
that is solely responsible for the Jews survival down to the 21st century.
Otherwise, I can't think of any other reason why the Jews should have
survied and all those other ancient peoples perished.


All well and good. But you will never be able to abandon your religion.
It
would be suicidal to do so. There is a strong tribal element to being a
Jew,
but the religion is the key to it all.


Its inter-related - the religion and the heritage. They aren't entirely
seperatable.

Agreed, but the religion is the key to it.

Pat Buchanan has put forth the interesting idea that all culture (heritage)
comes out of religion. I think he is right about that. We see this in the
Muslim world today where most in that world are still religious and they do
all seem to have a common culture. Indonesia has a lot in common with
Morocco for instance. Religion is enormously important to mankind.



Those shared values and the history of oppression will fade - as they
already have for most American Jews. Abandon your religion at your
peril.
The orthodox Jew will save Judaism.

I don't think thats so - the numbers of orthodox jews are small and our
numbers are huge.

Abandon your religion at your peril.


Intermarriage is the beginning of the end for the Jew as it is for the
Catholic. The religion will eventually be lost and so will the
identification of being Jewish as intermarriage continues generation
after
generation. It will be an uphill struggle to maintain your
identification
as
a Jew. Eventually, you or your children will be absorbed into the
gentile
world. It was ever thus.


Not my children, I hope. They will be raised to embrace their culture.

Chances are your children, being half gentile themselves, will marry
gentiles and so your grandchildren will be one further step removed from you
and your parents. Eventually a heritage that is not anchored in religion
will be nothing but hollow observances - sort of like the Midwest Irish. We
celebrate all the worse things about Ireland. It is all fake and
phony-balony. St.Pat's Day - what an abomination!

The secular Jew will become as American as any other ethnic group given
enough time and lack of religion. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but
it means the Jew will finally pass into history (except for Israel of
course). It is only Judaism that has kept the Jew peculiarly Jewish.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
"Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Child" wrote:
"Edward Dolan" wrote:
My parents did not get married until your age (36) because the Great
Depression prevented it (nobody had any money). My mother had three
children
and so can you if that is what you want. You have lots of time and
you will
be a good parent because you have acquired maturity as had my mother.
That
makes all the difference. Your children will be lucky to have mature
parents.

I agree about maturity being a good thing for parenting - i would have
made
a horrible parent at 20. Although some of my late parent friends are
the
most overindulgent parents ever - rearing some spoiled brats from hell.
I
will not raise a brat

It is almost impossible to over indulge a child, provided that you love
the

I *totally* agree with that statement.

child and the child knows that he is loved. That makes all the
difference.
Did you know that are some cultures where the parents never discipline
the
child (certain Indian tribes and I believe the Eskimos). Of course there
is
never any separation of the child from the parents which might have a lot
to
do with it.

But it is not true that children are never disciplined; rather
there is *never* a reason to use physical violence.

The point being made, in reference to Indian and Eskimo child
rearing, is correct though and just misstated. I think this is a
*very* important subject, which all parents should hopefully be
taught.

Indian and Eskimo children are taught to respect themselves and
others in a way that is far more effective than using physical
discipline. Peer pressure, which in American society is often a
negative influence, is used to provide positive guidance. And
while this is not a case of there never being separation between
the parent and child, it is the same mechanism on a much grander
scale: no separation from a large extended family that equates
to the entire community.

Basically, if you live in a small village and you are related to
most of the people to some degree, it just simply makes life
*much* easier if you are a good kid than if you are not!
Everyone knows everything you've done, and they tell you about
it! Every old man knows every child by name, and knows what
they've been doing lately. Obviously if a child gets positive
feedback from every direction, it has a fantastic effect.

Rather than celebrate events like birthdays, they celebrate
milestones of accomplishment on an individual basis instead of
in groups. When a child first accomplishes some specific thing,
everyone makes a big deal out of it. Hence when a boy catches
his first fish, or later his first seal, it is cause for
something similar to a "birthday party".

But there are some methods which are very different too, and
very interesting. When a child is born they are said to take
the place of a recent elder who has passed on. Western observers
typically misunderstood this, and recorded that they believed in
reincarnation. It's not.

What is passed from the elder to the child is *respect*. That
child becomes the object of the memories of love and respect
that were previously directed at the elder. That allows memory
of the elder to live on in everyone's memory, because they daily
refer to the child by the same names, and remind the child of
exactly that relationship. The child of course is taught to
live up to that respect, because the child *is* that elder in
the memories of everyone. Actually, there might be several
relationships of that type developed during the formative years,
and as a child most individuals have several "names", all of
which refer to a relationship with someone else. Occasionally
one of these names sticks, and is used throughout a person's
life.

It is a wonderful mechanism that creates very responsible
children. One of the side effects, for example, is that sibling
rivalry which results in fighting between children non-existent.
Instead children learn to enjoy sharing, and develop a family
bond that is really hard to describe to anyone who's never seen
it.

One example shows up in something which relates to the subject
of this thread. It can best be seen at the World Indian Eskimo
Olympics, though it shows up in just about any competition among
Native peoples. Serious competitors do everything they can to
*help* everyone do their best. Who is the best coach for any
given event? The current first place competitor is the one who
will be seen coaching the next challenger!

...

Being carefree has its high points, Eddie!

Only when you are young. As you grow older, being carefree pales and
eventually palls.

Life is a circle. Eventually being carefree is what makes old
age fun, and keeps life worth living even in the face of an end.

--
FloydL. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Many thanks for the wonderful and informative post Floyd. I think I knew
some of what you said in your message about the Eskimos as I took several
courses in cultural anthropology when I was in college. That is what I was
relying on when I said what I did about the child rearing practices of some
Indian and Eskimo cultures. But with the passage of time you only recollect
imperfectly what you may have read 40 years ago. You are of course right in
that the children are disciplined, but physical force is not used.

There are some religious cults that seem to think that children need to be
beaten, shamed and ridiculed in order to become God fearing - or whatever.
We could learn a lot from the Eskimo about how to raise children. As much as
I hate Hillary Clinton, she is right about it taking a village to raise a
child.

Back in the 40's we kids could never get away with anything because everyone
in town knew everyone else and would report you to your parents if you were
up to no good. That is the way it should be everywhere, but I am afraid
society is breaking down rather badly in our large metros. Small towns and
villages are ideal for not only raising a child, but for all men and women.
Someday people are going to wake up and realize that the Midwest is a
paradise. It is full of small towns which are ideal for living a humane and
civilized life.

--
Best Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Child" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...
[...]
Only when you are young. As you grow older, being carefree pales and
eventually palls.


I hope that after the kids are grown i get to be carefree again.


Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."

And the raven, never flitting, still is sitting, still is sitting
On the pallid bust of Pallas just above my chamber door;
And his eyes have all the seeming of a demon's that is dreaming.
And the lamplight o'er him streaming throws his shadow on the floor;
And my soul from out that shadow that lies floating on the floor
Shall be lifted---nevermore!


--

Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:

Many thanks for the wonderful and informative post Floyd. I think I knew

And thank you for the kind words.

some of what you said in your message about the Eskimos as I took several
courses in cultural anthropology when I was in college. That is what I was
relying on when I said what I did about the child rearing practices of some
Indian and Eskimo cultures. But with the passage of time you only recollect
imperfectly what you may have read 40 years ago. You are of course right in
that the children are disciplined, but physical force is not used.

There are some religious cults that seem to think that children need to be
beaten, shamed and ridiculed in order to become God fearing - or whatever.
We could learn a lot from the Eskimo about how to raise children. As much as
I hate Hillary Clinton, she is right about it taking a village to raise a
child.

Back in the 40's we kids could never get away with anything because everyone
in town knew everyone else and would report you to your parents if you were
up to no good. That is the way it should be everywhere, but I am afraid
society is breaking down rather badly in our large metros. Small towns and
villages are ideal for not only raising a child, but for all men and women.
Someday people are going to wake up and realize that the Midwest is a
paradise. It is full of small towns which are ideal for living a humane and
civilized life.

Except that I think Hillary Clinton should would make the best
President we could imagine, I agree totally on all of the above.
I merely take it a few steps farther because I don't think those
Midwest towns are tight enough!

I've got a neat story about that...

My eldest son followed a young lady home to her village when he
was about 19 years old. Nice young lady. She lived in the
village where his maternal Grandparents were born, so he was
related to better than half the people there.

He stayed a couple days and got on a plane and left. He told me
with a chuckle, "Too damned tight!"

Of course, she really was a very nice young lady, so he went
back again. And again! And when things didn't work out with
that young lady he discovered another one! Actually, apparently
he discovered a *lot* of nice young ladies because he'd call his
mother and mention a name to her, but invariably she would say,
"Oh, that's your second cousin, she's the daughter of...". I
guess life was rough, but once he'd gotten used to Kipnuk, a
village of about 600-700 people, he just never left. He married
a local girl and now has a teenager of his own.

He just loves how tight that little village is. It's a great
place to raise kids. And as you say, it's also a great place
for adults!

--
FloydL. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
[...]

I guess life was rough, but once he'd gotten used to Kipnuk, a
village of about 600-700 people, he just never left. He married
a local girl and now has a teenager of his own.

He just loves how tight that little village is. It's a great
place to raise kids. And as you say, it's also a great place
for adults!

It always greatly amuses me to hear others tell of how great their cities
are in which they live. They obviously know nothing of where man came from
in terms of his evolution. We are designed to live in quite small human
groupings. Even that village you describe above is quite large in terms of
what our evolution has prepared us for. Everything began to go haywire with
the advent of agriculture some few thousands of years ago (a mere blink in
time compared to our total existence on the earth). Well, there is no going
back, but those fortunate enough to be able to live in small towns and
villages will more closely realize their humanity. We humans need
"tightness". The anonymity of the large city is an abomination.

There are lots of very small villages scattered about here in southwest
Minnesota. I am amazed when I go to these small places how everyone seems to
know everyone else and all about them too. Not everyone necessarily likes
everyone else, but there is a civility that prevails in those small places
because you are going to run into that person over and over in the course of
your life there. These are not small minded people at all. I find them to be
quite broad minded about most everything and very tolerant of differences
and failings. Sometimes I think Sinclair Lewis did not know what the hell he
was writing about.

About New York City where I lived for many years - it's a great place to
visit, but I wouldn't want to live there!

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Child wrote:

...
Cursing is part of my heritage that I embrace. I learned it from my
family.
We are proud, talented cursers....

But anyone who replies to an Usenet post with the response, "No ****"
does not deserve the privilege of posting to Usenet.

--
Tom Sherman - Quad City Area

I do not think "AN Usenet post" can be correct. It does not sound right.
Whereas "A Usenet post" does sound right. Normally "an" before a word that
starts with a vowel is right, but I wonder if there aren't some exceptions
to that rule. What do you think?


Apparently "a" vs "an" has to do with the SOUND of the starting letter, not
the letter itself. Because "usenet" is pronounced "yewsnet" it needs an "a"
instead of an "an"

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

There are lots of very small villages scattered about here in southwest
Minnesota. I am amazed when I go to these small places how everyone seems
to
know everyone else and all about them too. Not everyone necessarily likes
everyone else, but there is a civility that prevails in those small places
because you are going to run into that person over and over in the course
of
your life there. These are not small minded people at all. I find them to
be
quite broad minded about most everything and very tolerant of differences
and failings. Sometimes I think Sinclair Lewis did not know what the hell
he
was writing about.


i just got back from a work related visit to Nome, Alaska, a town of 3,000.
Probably half native and half other. It was a lovely experience - everyone
was so friendly, and genuinely nice, but there appear to be no secrets! I
now want to move to Nome. Boytoy says he won't make it through the
winter.....Ah well.

"Child" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

"Tom Sherman" wrote in message
...
Child wrote:

...
Cursing is part of my heritage that I embrace. I learned it from my
family.
We are proud, talented cursers....

But anyone who replies to an Usenet post with the response, "No ****"
does not deserve the privilege of posting to Usenet.

--
Tom Sherman - Quad City Area

I do not think "AN Usenet post" can be correct. It does not sound right.
Whereas "A Usenet post" does sound right. Normally "an" before a word
that
starts with a vowel is right, but I wonder if there aren't some
exceptions
to that rule. What do you think?


Apparently "a" vs "an" has to do with the SOUND of the starting letter,
not
the letter itself. Because "usenet" is pronounced "yewsnet" it needs an
"a"
instead of an "an"

Yes, I think you are right about that. That is why it is important sometimes
to sound out the words. I could pull out my old college English composition
grammar book and I am sure that that is the explanation we would find there.
Now if only you would have put a period at the end of your second sentence,
you would have been perfect.

But note how Mr. Tom is out to lunch whenever he gets called on a mistake.
This is so typical of those who are not secure about themselves. I own up to
my mistakes easily because I KNOW that everyone is making mistakes all the
time. It is part of the human condition.

The best professors I ever had at college admitted that they were ignorant
about many things, even in their own fields of expertise. The worst
professors I ever had would never admit to not knowing all there was to know
about something. I always thought those types were ridiculous.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Child" wrote in message
...

"Edward Dolan" wrote in message
...

There are lots of very small villages scattered about here in southwest
Minnesota. I am amazed when I go to these small places how everyone
seems
to
know everyone else and all about them too. Not everyone necessarily
likes
everyone else, but there is a civility that prevails in those small
places
because you are going to run into that person over and over in the
course
of
your life there. These are not small minded people at all. I find them
to
be
quite broad minded about most everything and very tolerant of
differences
and failings. Sometimes I think Sinclair Lewis did not know what the
hell
he
was writing about.


i just got back from a work related visit to Nome, Alaska, a town of
3,000.
Probably half native and half other. It was a lovely experience -
everyone
was so friendly, and genuinely nice, but there appear to be no secrets! I
now want to move to Nome. Boytoy says he won't make it through the
winter.....Ah well.

The problem with Alaska and all far northern places is that you are living
on the fringes of where humans can live. Please take note of the fact that
there are no great numbers of people living on the continent of Antarctica -
and for good reason. You need to start thinking about "going south". That
"going north" business is strictly for the Eskimo and the polar bear.

As Scott lay dying of starvation and exposure in his tent in the Antarctic
cold, he wrote in his journal ... My God! This is a horrible place! I think
that just about says it all. Do not even THINK about moving to Nome. Seattle
is your true home, not the frozen tundra of the North.
--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

"Edward Dolan" wrote:
"Child" wrote:

i just got back from a work related visit to Nome, Alaska, a town of 3,000.
Probably half native and half other. It was a lovely experience - everyone
was so friendly, and genuinely nice, but there appear to be no secrets! I
now want to move to Nome. Boytoy says he won't make it through the
winter.....Ah well.

The problem with Alaska and all far northern places is that you are living
on the fringes of where humans can live. Please take note of the fact that
there are no great numbers of people living on the continent of Antarctica -
and for good reason. You need to start thinking about "going south". That
"going north" business is strictly for the Eskimo and the polar bear.

What? You think Eskimos aren't humans?

Her big problem was with the selection of locations! First, she
lives in Los Anchorage, where they grow palm trees and Texans.
(The Texans make up for a lack of coconuts on the palm trees.)
It's just *not* suitable for human habitation! Second, she
visits Nome of all places. She clearly waited too long (folks
don't do anything in Nome that doesn't lead to divorce), and
should have visited there *before* she got hitched.

Nome's a nice place to visit, but really... it's just another
Whiteman's town.

As Scott lay dying of starvation and exposure in his tent in the Antarctic
cold, he wrote in his journal ... My God! This is a horrible place! I think

Visit Bethel, Kotzebue or Barrow. Get farther away from the
Alaska State Legislature! Go to places where people actually
know how to live in the Arctic. Where they say, "My GOD, this
is a *wonderful* place!"

that just about says it all. Do not even THINK about moving to Nome. Seattle
is your true home, not the frozen tundra of the North.

You realize that it *rains* in Seattle???? Yech!

Plus, and Beth probably won't understand this one yet, but the
fact is that south of the Alaska Range, the snow isn't crunchy.
If the snow don't crunch when you walk on it, go NORTH!

--
FloydL. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)