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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
I see that Critical Mass continues to set the image of cycling back
with its acts of mass stupidity. Well done! Regards Harold Tantum religio potuit suadere malorum - Lucretius |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
Harry 'Snapper' Organ wrote:
I see that Critical Mass continues to set the image of cycling back with its acts of mass stupidity. Well done! Whether one agrees with their actions or not... (and I don't particularly). Why on Earth are you calling them Fundamentalists? [1] G-S [1] Or do you mean fundamentally (note no capital F). |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
In aus.bicycle on Sat, 01 Dec 2007 09:11:04 +1100
G-S wrote: Harry 'Snapper' Organ wrote: I see that Critical Mass continues to set the image of cycling back with its acts of mass stupidity. Well done! Whether one agrees with their actions or not... (and I don't particularly). Why on Earth are you calling them Fundamentalists? [1] Umm... cos they have taken a couple of simple ideas and made them the core and totality of their religion, and refuse to see there can be any other interpretation? And they think anyone who disagrees in any way is evil and unclean and has nasty motives? "Fundamentalism" was orginally ( I thought late 1800s but I saw recently 1920s) a label applied to people who agreed with a set of pamphlets/books/statements called "The Fundamentals of Christianity" which sought to strip away accretions and bring the religion back to a more pure state by getting together in one place the basics as they understood it. Over time it's come to mean anyone who has a literalist and rigid interpretation of a book or creed and who refuses to see there's any other way to think or do, and further considers people who do interpret things differently as not just misguided but actively evil. See also anti-triathlete types... Zebee |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote: Umm... cos they have taken a couple of simple ideas and made them the core and totality of their religion, and refuse to see there can be any other interpretation? And they think anyone who disagrees in any way is evil and unclean and has nasty motives? Have you actually taken part in any Critical Mass rides? Because a fleeting glimpse from the roadside, or worse still, on the TV or via Laws/Jones/Mitchell's rantings is not a valid way to judge the behaviours and motivations of the diverse cyclists that take part in a Critical Mass. Some have extreme views and are very self-opinionated. Aren't we all at aone time or another? A lot of the errant behaviour actually gets weeded out by the more moderate approach of the long-term riders. Lots of the cyclists on Critical Mass just want to be able to go ride their bikes, to work, shops and for fun, without being run off the road by motorists, with a greater level of respect and in a more supportive, less threatening environment. Don't you want that? Many Critical Mass riders also own and use a car at certain times too! -- Cheers Peter ~~~ ~ _@ ~~ ~ _- \, ~~ (*)/ (*) |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
"PeteSig" wrote in message ... "Zebee Johnstone" wrote: Umm... cos they have taken a couple of simple ideas and made them the core and totality of their religion, and refuse to see there can be any other interpretation? And they think anyone who disagrees in any way is evil and unclean and has nasty motives? Have you actually taken part in any Critical Mass rides? Because a fleeting glimpse from the roadside, or worse still, on the TV or via Laws/Jones/Mitchell's rantings is not a valid way to judge the behaviours and motivations of the diverse cyclists that take part in a Critical Mass. Some have extreme views and are very self-opinionated. Aren't we all at aone time or another? A lot of the errant behaviour actually gets weeded out by the more moderate approach of the long-term riders. Lots of the cyclists on Critical Mass just want to be able to go ride their bikes, to work, shops and for fun, without being run off the road by motorists, with a greater level of respect and in a more supportive, less threatening environment. Don't you want that? Many Critical Mass riders also own and use a car at certain times too! -- Cheers Peter ~~~ ~ _@ ~~ ~ _- \, ~~ (*)/ (*) All I see is angry motorists and how that actually helps the cause and changes their views I don't know. We as a whole are much better off just thanking drivers that do the right thing etc when out on the road and trying that way. Anyone that lets me go by, stops for me etc always gets a smile and thank you gesture. |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
"Vintage" wrote in message ... ... All I see is angry motorists and how that actually helps the cause and changes their views I don't know. All I see is angry motorists too, but that has nothing to do with Critical Mass. It's because they are stuck in gridlock, while fantasising about a solo, unimpeded jaunt through the wilderness - as it looks in 4wd ads all the time. T. |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
"Vintage" wrote: All I see is angry motorists and how that actually helps the cause and changes their views I don't know. Just to confirm your level of experience, how many Critical Mass rides have you been on? (As an actual participant) Because, having been on a few in Melbourne, my experience is that the numbers of motorists expressing support for CM is actually quite high, at least as many as those who honk the horn agressively. We as a whole are much better off just thanking drivers that do the right thing etc when out on the road and trying that way. Anyone that lets me go by, stops for me etc always gets a smile and thank you gesture. Hey, great. This is actually what Critical Mass riders do while on the ride. Revolutionary, huh? -- Cheers Peter ~~~ ~ _@ ~~ ~ _- \, ~~ (*)/ (*) |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
Vintage wrote:
All I see is angry motorists and how that actually helps the cause and changes their views I don't know. Giving into bullies never solves anythings. We as a whole are much better off just thanking drivers that do the right thing etc when out on the road and trying that way. Yep, that has work very well for the last 30+ years.Just look at all those bicycle riders murdered by car drivers. They are all lining up to agree with you. |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
In aus.bicycle on Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:49:49 GMT
PeteSig wrote: "Zebee Johnstone" wrote: Umm... cos they have taken a couple of simple ideas and made them the core and totality of their religion, and refuse to see there can be any other interpretation? And they think anyone who disagrees in any way is evil and unclean and has nasty motives? Have you actually taken part in any Critical Mass rides? Because a fleeting glimpse from the roadside, or worse still, on the TV or via Laws/Jones/Mitchell's rantings is not a valid way to judge the behaviours and motivations of the diverse cyclists that take part in a Critical Mass. So they say. And yet what is the outcome? What good does it do? I won't take part *because* of the results. WHich I couldn't change but would only reinforce. Some have extreme views and are very self-opinionated. Aren't we all at aone time or another? A lot of the errant behaviour actually gets weeded out by the more moderate approach of the long-term riders. really? Then how come those who see it don't see that? What do the moderates do, how can they change what the image is? (and isn't it interesting that when there's trouble CM say "no one is in control" but then people say there is control.... Peer pressure is also known as the madness of crowds...) Lots of the cyclists on Critical Mass just want to be able to go ride their bikes, to work, shops and for fun, without being run off the road by motorists, with a greater level of respect and in a more supportive, less threatening environment. Don't you want that? Oddly enough, I find the way to do that is ride. Every day. Not in one big angry lump that only reinforces the idea that bikes are dangerous singly and also that riders are selfish *******s. Instead I ride sensibly on the road to work. And you know... I don't get run off the road. I get about as many incidents as I get when driving a car or riding a motorcycle. But you know when I talk to people about CM do I get "oh, I should be more careful of bicycles"? Like hell I do. Instead I get told cyclists are immature selfish ******s who get all this money spent on them and then clog up the roads. If CM is about "ride their bikes [...] with a greater level of respect in a more supportive less threatening environment" then it's failing. because it doesn't generate respect. It is respectless and gets what it gives. You ask anyone who *isn't* a cyclist about CM. If they know it, they'll dis it, if they don't and you tell them what happens, they'll dis it. So, this helps how? Now, Critical Manners, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGB6P8R1U1.DTL they would be much better at generating the attitude you say CM wishes to generate. But it doesn't give the riders that feeling of power, and so wouldn't get much support I expect. Tell you what.... when Critical Mass runs a ride to the rules of Critical Manners I'll join in. Cos it will be just like any of the daily rides where I interact respectfully to other road users and they return respect to me. It will make motorists re think when they see this big bunch obeying rules, not caring about being split up, smiling, and generating respect. I do my bit for cyclists on the road every day I ride on the road. every time I do the shopping, every time I go to work, every time I say "thank you" to the people on the cycle path and wave to drivers who give way, and move over when I can to let cars by me. I hope I undo some of the damage CM does. Many Critical Mass riders also own and use a car at certain times too! So? I haven't owned a car for 20 years. It isn't relevant. It isn't about car vs bike. It is about respect and sensible road use. CM has neither. Zebee |
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Critical Mass - Fundamentalist Plonkers?
"Zebee Johnstone" wrote in message ... In aus.bicycle on Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:49:49 GMT PeteSig wrote: "Zebee Johnstone" wrote: Umm... cos they have taken a couple of simple ideas and made them the core and totality of their religion, and refuse to see there can be any other interpretation? And they think anyone who disagrees in any way is evil and unclean and has nasty motives? Have you actually taken part in any Critical Mass rides? I won't take part *because* of the results. WHich I couldn't change but would only reinforce. Uhuh. So we judge the attitudes of the people involved, without experiencing their actions nor talking to them to see where they are coming from. Not much more sophisicated then Alan Jones' comments on those 'lebanese yoof 'at Cronulla really. Try to go on a Critical Mass ride, Zebee, at least once, and talk to the cyclists involved. You may be surprised that they're not too different to you. Some have extreme views and are very self-opinionated. Aren't we all at aone time or another? A lot of the errant behaviour actually gets weeded out by the more moderate approach of the long-term riders. really? Then how come those who see it don't see that? What do the moderates do, how can they change what the image is? People who get unjustifiably aggro with motorist get a good talking to. (and isn't it interesting that when there's trouble CM say "no one is in control" but then people say there is control.... Peer pressure is also known as the madness of crowds...) Peer pressure is what controls society *all* the time. Our legal system is just a codified form of peer pressure. Instead I ride sensibly on the road to work. And you know... I don't get run off the road. I get about as many incidents as I get when driving a car or riding a motorcycle. As I do too. But then I ride in Melbourne's eastern suburbs. I gather the northern suburbs are a bit different. Far more testosterone-laden boys in their 'fully sick' hotted Commodores But you know when I talk to people about CM do I get "oh, I should be more careful of bicycles"? Like hell I do. Instead I get told cyclists are immature selfish ******s who get all this money spent on them and then clog up the roads. This attitude will pervade, regardless of Critical Mass. CM is actually more of a wake up to many drivers. Especially those who try to crash through the ride, and get a stern reminder of their road responsibilities by the Police. You ask anyone who *isn't* a cyclist about CM. If they know it, they'll dis it, if they don't and you tell them what happens, they'll dis it. So, this helps how? See above. Motorists bad-mouthed me as soon as I began commuting. Pre-CM, 1975, and first-off it was my own father. Grrrr! Many Critical Mass riders also own and use a car at certain times too! So? I haven't owned a car for 20 years. It isn't relevant. Fairly relevant when some people paint CM riders as extreme, fundamentalist nutcases. Fundamentalist? Me?? Suburban home, wife, two kids, cat, two cars (I know!!) nine bikes in running condition :0 Don't think I'm an extremist nut who won't listen to another viewpoint. We all come from diverse Aussie backgrounds, but share a passion for cycling. Does not make someone a 'fundamentalist'. -- Cheers Peter ~~~ ~ _@ ~~ ~ _- \, ~~ (*)/ (*) |
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