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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
Four years for murdering five people with a car while drunk
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/6256258.stm Tony -- Tony "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell |
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
Ace wrote on 30/06/2007 13:58 +0100:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:52:44 +0100, Tony Raven wrote: Four years for murdering five people with a car while drunk http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/6256258.stm Can't you read English? He's been sentenced to eight and a half years, which is very near the maximum of 10 that the offence could carry. Wrong again. "Ben Morphey was told he would serve half of an eight-and-a-half year jail term" -- Tony "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell |
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
in message , Ace
') wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:52:44 +0100, Tony Raven wrote: Four years for murdering five people with a car while drunk http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/6256258.stm Can't you read English? He's been sentenced to eight and a half years, which is very near the maximum of 10 that the offence could carry. What would you have wanted the court to do? More to the point he's been given a ten year driving ban. Frankly, what I'd like to see is for the courts to give long *suspended* sentences (up to and including life sentences) for this sort of thing, but to release the convicted drivers on licence more or less immediately. They would only be jailed if they drove a motor vehicle while banned - in which case, being out on licence, they could be jailed immediately with no need to go back to court. Towards the end of their sentence they would then have to train for and sit a mandatory advanced driving test, and unless they passed it they wouldn't get their driving licence back. Prison as vengeance doesn't make sense and isn't economic. Prison is only justified in so far as it either rehabilitates the offender, or protects the public. If the offender is an irresponsible driver, then in nine cases out of ten (s)he will rehabilitate in time just be growing older. In the mean time the public is protected just by preventing them from driving. They get to continue living their life and earning their living, the exchequer collects the fine and their continued income tax (and doesn't have to pay to keep them in prison), and the public are safe. Result, I would say. -- (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; If Python is executable pseudocode, ;; then Perl is executable line noise -- seen on Slashdot. |
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
Simon Brooke wrote on 30/06/2007 14:44 +0100:
Prison is only justified in so far as it either rehabilitates the offender, or protects the public. You forgot prison "pour encourager les autres. -- Tony "The most savage controversies are those about matters as to which there is no good evidence either way." - Bertrand Russell |
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
On 30 Jun, 14:44, Simon Brooke wrote:
in message , Ace ') wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:52:44 +0100, Tony Raven wrote: Four years for murdering five people with a car while drunk http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/6256258.stm Can't you read English? He's been sentenced to eight and a half years, which is very near the maximum of 10 that the offence could carry. What would you have wanted the court to do? More to the point he's been given a ten year driving ban. Frankly, what I'd like to see is for the courts to give long *suspended* sentences (up to and including life sentences) for this sort of thing, but to release the convicted drivers on licence more or less immediately. They would only be jailed if they drove a motor vehicle while banned - in which case, being out on licence, they could be jailed immediately with no need to go back to court. Towards the end of their sentence they would then have to train for and sit a mandatory advanced driving test, and unless they passed it they wouldn't get their driving licence back. Prison as vengeance doesn't make sense and isn't economic. Prison is only justified in so far as it either rehabilitates the offender, or protects the public. If the offender is an irresponsible driver, then in nine cases out of ten (s)he will rehabilitate in time just be growing older. In the mean time the public is protected just by preventing them from driving. They get to continue living their life and earning their living, the exchequer collects the fine and their continued income tax (and doesn't have to pay to keep them in prison), and the public are safe. Result, I would say. -- (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; If Python is executable pseudocode, ;; then Perl is executable line noise -- seen on Slashdot. Exactly where is the punishment here? Other than not being able to drive an MV (which isn't really a big deal anyway) the driver gets away with it. So in addition to the measures you propose, the killer should also pay for his crime financially, by having his assets seized and by attaching a deduction to his future earnings. He should also be publicly shamed, via the local media and through public display in the local market place. |
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 14:44:04 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote: Prison as vengeance doesn't make sense and isn't economic. Prison is only justified in so far as it either rehabilitates the offender, or protects the public. It is also justified as a deterrent to others. |
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
On 30/06/2007 15:29, raisethe said,
He should also be publicly shamed, via the local media That happens anyway, usually even before the verdict is announced. and through public display in the local market place. ....but that would be good, if you can find any local markets these days :-) -- Paul Boyd http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/ |
#8
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
raise the wrote:
On 30 Jun, 14:44, Simon Brooke wrote: in message , Ace ') wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 12:52:44 +0100, Tony Raven wrote: Four years for murdering five people with a car while drunk http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/6256258.stm Can't you read English? He's been sentenced to eight and a half years, which is very near the maximum of 10 that the offence could carry. What would you have wanted the court to do? More to the point he's been given a ten year driving ban. Frankly, what I'd like to see is for the courts to give long *suspended* sentences (up to and including life sentences) for this sort of thing, but to release the convicted drivers on licence more or less immediately. They would only be jailed if they drove a motor vehicle while banned - in which case, being out on licence, they could be jailed immediately with no need to go back to court. Towards the end of their sentence they would then have to train for and sit a mandatory advanced driving test, and unless they passed it they wouldn't get their driving licence back. Prison as vengeance doesn't make sense and isn't economic. Prison is only justified in so far as it either rehabilitates the offender, or protects the public. If the offender is an irresponsible driver, then in nine cases out of ten (s)he will rehabilitate in time just be growing older. In the mean time the public is protected just by preventing them from driving. They get to continue living their life and earning their living, the exchequer collects the fine and their continued income tax (and doesn't have to pay to keep them in prison), and the public are safe. Result, I would say. -- (Simon Brooke)http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/ ;; If Python is executable pseudocode, ;; then Perl is executable line noise -- seen on Slashdot. Exactly where is the punishment here? Other than not being able to drive an MV (which isn't really a big deal anyway) the driver gets away with it. Punishment? What we are really interested in is preventing the behaviour/crime, both in the offender and in others. Like Simon I suspect prison has as a punishment is of very little deterrent value in cases like this. The logic goes that because people don't expect an accident they don't consider the penalties and hence even severe penalties have very little deterrent effect. It is far more likely that drink drivers do consider the probability of being caught for drink driving, but without any accident involved and it is this penalty that they will consider and be deterred by. The good thing about prolonged driving bans are that they help prevent recidivism and that they don't cost the tax payer. So in addition to the measures you propose, the killer should also pay for his crime financially, by having his assets seized and by attaching a deduction to his future earnings. One would hope that there is the potential for a civil case to assess damages. He should also be publicly shamed, via the local media and through public display in the local market place. Well the bbc website does appear to have named and shamed him. |
#9
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[Fwd: Death driver jail term criticised]
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 15:45:39 +0100, Tom Crispin wrote:
It is also justified as a deterrent to others. Given current sentencing policy, I don't think that justification holds up. -- Regards Alex The From address above is a spam-trap. The Reply-To address is valid |
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