Nipple breakage

I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same? Should they all be replaced? Is this failure common? Why would it
break? Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on? Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?

DougA wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same? Should they all be replaced? Is this failure common? Why would it
break? Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on? Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?



I've had aluminum nipples fail in this way. I, too, wondered if it meant
an impending rash of failures, but in my case it didn't. Aluminum
nipples seem to be weaker than brass, also more prone to corrosion from
salt. I don't like them, but I haven't bothered to replace them on the
wheels I have. Just oil the spoke threads & replace the nipple. Buy a
few spares. Take them in your bag if you're worried about it.

On Aug 6, 7:06*am, "DougA" wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. *Ignoring it till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. *Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. *Are all nipples the
same? *
No, they vary by gauge, length and material

Should they all be replaced?
Aluminum nipps are generaly a bad idea. Soft and they......break.
I would replace all of them with brass.

*Is this failure common? *Why would it
break?
See above, common and because aluminum is a poor material for such a
high stress area.

*Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on?
Grease or oil.

*Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?
Probably altho having a spoke/nipple break can bend the rim.


Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?
Replace all the nipps and redo the wheel.

I agree about replacing all with brass nips. I've done this on numerous
wheels once the nips started breaking. Aluminum is the wrong material for
this application.

Here's an experiment: stress relieve the wheel - your choice of method. I
use Jobst' squeezing the spokes method. See how many more nipples you can
break. If no more break you can probably go a while without changing them
for brass. Last time I did this I stopped after 6 broke and went right to
replacing them with brass.

Rocky


"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
On Aug 6, 7:06 am, "DougA" wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve attached
to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same?
No, they vary by gauge, length and material

Should they all be replaced?
Aluminum nipps are generaly a bad idea. Soft and they......break.
I would replace all of them with brass.

Is this failure common? Why would it
break?
See above, common and because aluminum is a poor material for such a
high stress area.

Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on?
Grease or oil.

Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?
Probably altho having a spoke/nipple break can bend the rim.


Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?
Replace all the nipps and redo the wheel.

I have not had a aluminum nipple break. Generally they round off
sometimes when you true them. What brand of nipple are you using. If
you are using a asian one, then this might be the problem.

Replacing all the nipples and or carrying some spare ones is a good
idea since aluminum does fatigue more over time.


On Aug 6, 1:05*pm, "Rocky" wrote:
I agree about replacing all with brass nips. I've done this on numerous
wheels once the nips started breaking. *Aluminum is the wrong material for
this application.

Here's an experiment: *stress relieve the wheel - your choice of method.. *I
use Jobst' squeezing the spokes method. * See how many more nipples you can
break. *If no more break you can probably go a while without changing them
for brass. *Last time I did this I stopped after 6 broke and went right to
replacing them with brass.

Rocky

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in ...
On Aug 6, 7:06 am, "DougA" wrote: I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve attached
to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same?

No, they vary by gauge, length and material

Should they all be replaced?
Aluminum nipps are generaly a bad idea. Soft and they......break.
I would replace all of them with brass.

Is this failure common? Why would it break?

See above, common and because aluminum is a poor material for such a
high stress area.

Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on?
Grease or oil.

Will tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Probably altho having a spoke/nipple break can bend the rim.



Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?

Replace all the nipps and redo the wheel.

DougA wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same? Should they all be replaced? Is this failure common? Why would it
break? Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on? Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?

That's why we persnickety wheelbuilders use hard brass nipples.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

A. Muzi wrote:
DougA wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it
till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve
attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same? Should they all be replaced? Is this failure common? Why
would it
break? Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on? Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?

That's why we persnickety wheelbuilders use hard brass nipples.

Why are nipples brass instead of stainless steel?

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

In article ,
Tom Sherman wrote:

A. Muzi wrote:
DougA wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it
till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve
attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same? Should they all be replaced? Is this failure common? Why
would it
break? Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on? Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?

That's why we persnickety wheelbuilders use hard brass nipples.

Why are nipples brass instead of stainless steel?

My guess: corrosion resistance.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Tom Sherman wrote:

A. Muzi wrote:
DougA wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it
till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve
attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same? Should they all be replaced? Is this failure common? Why
would it
break? Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on? Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?
That's why we persnickety wheelbuilders use hard brass nipples.
Why are nipples brass instead of stainless steel?

My guess: corrosion resistance.


brass is more corrosion resistant than stainless??? guess again!

Tom Sherman wrote:
A. Muzi wrote:
DougA wrote:
I was descending a steep hill on my commute this morning when I heard a
sound like a rock bouncing of the tire onto the spokes. Ignoring it
till I
got to the bottom, I stopped and noticed the back brake stuck. Noticing
the wheel was way out of true I limped home and in light saw an alloy
nipple had separated from the hat leaving the the nipple sleeve
attached to
the spoke.

I will be off the LBS at lunch to get nipples. Are all nipples the
same? Should they all be replaced? Is this failure common? Why
would it
break? Do you grease the spoke before putting the new one on? Will
tightening the new nipple bring the wheel back into true 100%?

Perhaps I should carry a spoke wrench and nipple in my first aid kit?

That's why we persnickety wheelbuilders use hard brass nipples.

Why are nipples brass instead of stainless steel?


because it bike builder tradition. back in the day before stainless
spokes, brass/ferritic steel, even when corroded, can still usually be
persuaded to turn. corroded steel on steel can't.

the fact that brass is ductile, and thus easily allows local yielding
mitigating local point stresses helps too.

other than that, there's no real reason. aluminum spoke nipples aren't
such a dumb idea if they're not being asked to provide the same
structural strength from the same physical size as a stronger material.
modern pre-builts use over-size aluminum spoke nipples most effectively.