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Bonking + Bicycles



 
 
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  #21  
Old May 26th 20, 11:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On 5/26/2020 5:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:

So what is that pathway? In my case, in cool wet weather with sustained
effort for a few hours, I just ran out of something (if not everything).


I'm curious too. It's certain that I could never ride forever even at my
strongest. (I did 200 miles in one day, but once was enough for me.)
Some sort of reservoir gets depleted as we exert ourselves, obviously.
Eating and drinking helps, but there are still limits.

And that's regarding just one long ride. There's also a depressing
effect I've discovered as I've aged: It seems harder and harder to train
to do long distances. It's like that reservoir that gets depleted during
a long ride also gets smaller every year.

What exactly is that reservoir? And come to think of it, how does
consistent training make it bigger? When a person gets better at long
rides by doing lots of long rides, what exactly is changing inside one's
body?



--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #22  
Old May 27th 20, 12:12 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
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Posts: 853
Default Bonking + Bicycles

wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and
running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless
you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a
low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very
low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone
insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the
glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level.
No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat,
the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep
blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not
go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is
similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a
minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their
heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your blood
sugar goes up and down.




On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that
every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm
the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past
the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride
at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover
enough to ride further?

Cheers




My understanding is that there are about 2000 Calories of glycogen store in
muscle tissue. Additionally, we are capable of metabolizing fat (of which
most of us have essentially infinite stores)and converting it to glycogen,
but the rate of conversion may not keep up to vigorous exercise. So if your
exertion is short or low level, you should never bonk, but if it’s long and
hard, you may run low on glycogen.

  #23  
Old May 27th 20, 12:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_7_]
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Posts: 173
Default Bonking + Bicycles

wrote:
On Monday, May 25, 2020 at 6:53:44 PM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
Mark Cleary wrote:
I have and takes 24 hours of nothing but rest, food and liquids. 1989
Chicago Marathon I ran whole way in 3:23 and it was hot 80 degrees in sun
last 8 miles. I sat down at the end and could not get back up. I tried to
stand and it all when white buzz. A friend found me and gave me a regular
coke to drink. Within minutes got up and got to car drove home.

I of course was 30 years younger at the time. To this day I never stop
and eat except on century I am pushing for time. I don’t even take water
for 50 miles unless hot. I good for 59-70 but can bonk if I am low on
fuel. No matter what a 28/34 gear is not easy.

Moral is probably fuel sugar coke ok!

Deacon Mark


Like I said, I Earp gels riding. Maybe a cliff bar in the middle if the
rides long enough. Riding for 50 miles with no liquid? That’s probably
not a good idea. On an 85km ride I’d do a couple water bottles at least.


The period of time that a gel works for me is so short that I simply don't use them.


I don’t insist that anyone does what I do. What works for me is to
periodically eat a gel and more often drink something, preferably with
electrolytes. Everyone is different so YMMV and probably does. ( think I
ripped that quote off of M. Muzi)

  #24  
Old May 27th 20, 12:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_7_]
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Posts: 173
Default Bonking + Bicycles

wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:24:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and
running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless
you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a
low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall
very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the
hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with
the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant
level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little
you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood
sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood
sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up
and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from
beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control
whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe
your blood sugar goes up and down.


And what causes the symptoms we call bonking and go away when we eat
sugary food. Or does this also not happen?


Lou
Lou


+1

  #25  
Old May 27th 20, 01:40 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:24:12 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your

blood
sugar goes up and down.


Errr... your body stores glycogen in the liver and in the muscles. As
you exercise glycogen is released into your blood stream as glucose
which is basically the fuel source for the muscles.
If you exercise at a rate either higher than the body releases
glycogen or until a point where the glycogen is essentially depleted
then the blood-glucose levels drop. The brain will prioritize itself
over anything else because glucose is its primary fuel source.

This is refereed to as non-diabetic hypoglycemia or exercise-induced
hypoglycemia and known to the laity as "bonking".

( hypoglycemia ~ noun 1. abnormally low blood sugar usually
resulting from excessive insulin or a poor diet )
--
cheers,

John B.

  #26  
Old May 27th 20, 01:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:40:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/26/2020 3:24 PM, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your bl

ood sugar goes up and down.




On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers



Good to know. I didn't ascribe a pathway to my
once-only-in-a-lifetime-of-riding event. Whatever happened,
it was sudden and debilitating, as much physical as mental
in that my brain was not working right.

So what is that pathway? In my case, in cool wet weather
with sustained effort for a few hours, I just ran out of
something (if not everything).


Marathon runners and (I believe) professional bicycle racers eat large
carbnohydrate heavy meals for a period before they expend effort.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #27  
Old May 27th 20, 01:49 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tue, 26 May 2020 18:28:02 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 5/26/2020 5:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:

So what is that pathway? In my case, in cool wet weather with sustained
effort for a few hours, I just ran out of something (if not everything).


I'm curious too. It's certain that I could never ride forever even at my
strongest. (I did 200 miles in one day, but once was enough for me.)
Some sort of reservoir gets depleted as we exert ourselves, obviously.
Eating and drinking helps, but there are still limits.

And that's regarding just one long ride. There's also a depressing
effect I've discovered as I've aged: It seems harder and harder to train
to do long distances. It's like that reservoir that gets depleted during
a long ride also gets smaller every year.

What exactly is that reservoir? And come to think of it, how does
consistent training make it bigger? When a person gets better at long
rides by doing lots of long rides, what exactly is changing inside one's
body?


The reservoir is Glycogen, i.e. glucose, stored in the muscles and the
liver.

When one rides for long periods one is exercising and thus the muscles
are growing stronger.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #28  
Old May 27th 20, 01:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On 5/26/2020 7:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:40:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/26/2020 3:24 PM, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your

bl
ood sugar goes up and down.




On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers


Good to know. I didn't ascribe a pathway to my
once-only-in-a-lifetime-of-riding event. Whatever happened,
it was sudden and debilitating, as much physical as mental
in that my brain was not working right.

So what is that pathway? In my case, in cool wet weather
with sustained effort for a few hours, I just ran out of
something (if not everything).


Marathon runners and (I believe) professional bicycle racers eat large
carbnohydrate heavy meals for a period before they expend effort.



Yes, that's well known.

What I think distinguishes my experience, and from others'
comments here, the general pattern for a bonk is excessive
metabolic spending, more than what's in the bank as it were.
At that time 85 miles at non-competitive speeds would not
have been a problem for me; just a ride. Fighting winds
while chilled in a wet jersey proved over whatever limit
there was.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #29  
Old May 27th 20, 01:59 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:24:12 -0700, wrote:

I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and
running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless
you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a
low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall
very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the
hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with
the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant
level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little
you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood
sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood
sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic.


Congratulation, you know the medical theory, but in practise it can be
different. Firstly, response; if the body isn't trained/practised as
responding to sustained exercise, then it may not respond so swiftly.


Blood sugar going up
and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from
beating for a minute or two.


It isn't. That is a very poor analogy. However, with training, some
people can regulate their heart and some to very slow. I still wonder
about the old people who just literally lay down and die.


Do you believe people can manually control
whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe
your blood sugar goes up and down.


It does. Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't just
a switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and the
type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood glucose
levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify the remaining
level of response. Some, older, experienced endocrynologist often talk
about five or more types/classification based on observation of patients

  #30  
Old May 27th 20, 02:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 2,421
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tue, 26 May 2020 19:51:34 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/26/2020 7:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:40:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/26/2020 3:24 PM, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your

bl
ood sugar goes up and down.




On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers


Good to know. I didn't ascribe a pathway to my
once-only-in-a-lifetime-of-riding event. Whatever happened,
it was sudden and debilitating, as much physical as mental
in that my brain was not working right.

So what is that pathway? In my case, in cool wet weather
with sustained effort for a few hours, I just ran out of
something (if not everything).


Marathon runners and (I believe) professional bicycle racers eat large
carbnohydrate heavy meals for a period before they expend effort.



Yes, that's well known.

What I think distinguishes my experience, and from others'
comments here, the general pattern for a bonk is excessive
metabolic spending, more than what's in the bank as it were.
At that time 85 miles at non-competitive speeds would not
have been a problem for me; just a ride. Fighting winds
while chilled in a wet jersey proved over whatever limit
there was.


Generally speaking, muscle strength is a major factor. When I broke my
hip I was in bed for about 4 weeks. Flat on my back with traction on
my leg. When I finally got up I could barely support my own weight.

And, horrible as it might be, the normal ageing process results in
muscle deterioration and old folks "just can't hack it any more", and,
based on the ability to run a 4 minute mile the ageing process appears
to start around the age of 40 :-(
--
cheers,

John B.

 




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