it had to happen sooner or later .....

"Ian Henden" wrote in message ...
..... but not expected so close to home.

Very busy roundabout (Fareham, A27/A32 Market roundabout). Very busy time
of day. (yesterday, 17th).

Roundabout has cycle *routes* nearby which provide safe routes for cyclists,
to avoid roundabout.

I don't know the area so cannot comment on the safety or otherwise of
these
specific routes. In several instances I know of cycle routes that are
not as safe
as the nearby roads.

Sadly, lady cyclist killed under wheels of a bus on the roundabout.

If *only she had used the cycle routes*.........

Do you know the facts of the accident ?

Without such details you simply cannot state that using the cycle
routes would have been any safer. As it stands, it appears to me,
you have made a cynical attempt at putting the blame on the cyclist.
The cyclist had a right to be on the road and without knowing what
happened
you should not try to place blame.

I am sure we all feel for the lady cyclist's family, and also for the bus
driver.

My sympathy goes to everyone concerned.

Some more details are he

http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps...EWS_NEWS0.html

"The bus driver was arrested at the scene and was released last night
on police bail
after he was questioned."

Doug

I've only just picked up on this thread. I suspect it's just been
cross posted. But this is my Patch and a roundabout I frequently use.

On 19 Feb 2004 02:31:28 -0800, (Doug Steel)
wrote:

"Ian Henden" wrote in message ...
..... but not expected so close to home.

Very busy roundabout (Fareham, A27/A32 Market roundabout). Very busy time
of day. (yesterday, 17th).

Roundabout has cycle *routes* nearby which provide safe routes for cyclists,
to avoid roundabout.

I would never dream of using the 'cycle routes'. They are utterly
useless and downright dangerous. Not to mention the fact that they add
a hell of a distance and lots of stop-give-way.

Besides, there is *no* cycle route coming down from Hartlands Road
which is where the paper says the cyclist joined the roundabout from.

Look here http://notonmywatch.blogs.com/photos...ng/slide1.html for
a map showing just how non-existant cycle routes are in that area.

I don't know the area so cannot comment on the safety or otherwise of
these
specific routes. In several instances I know of cycle routes that are
not as safe
as the nearby roads.

Sadly, lady cyclist killed under wheels of a bus on the roundabout.

If *only she had used the cycle routes*.........

If only we had removed the roundabout and put in a signalised
junction.

There is no reason why cyclists should feel forced off the road. If
people stick to the rules of the road Quay St roundabout is fine.

Do you know the facts of the accident ?

Without such details you simply cannot state that using the cycle
routes would have been any safer. As it stands, it appears to me,
you have made a cynical attempt at putting the blame on the cyclist.
The cyclist had a right to be on the road and without knowing what
happened
you should not try to place blame.

I am sure we all feel for the lady cyclist's family, and also for the bus
driver.

My sympathy goes to everyone concerned.

Some more details are he

http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps...EWS_NEWS0.html

"The bus driver was arrested at the scene and was released last night
on police bail
after he was questioned."

Good to see a proper investigation carried out; location closed and
treated as a crime scene according to the article.

"[Not Responding]" wrote:

I've only just picked up on this thread. I suspect it's just been
cross posted. But this is my Patch and a roundabout I frequently use.

On 19 Feb 2004 02:31:28 -0800, (Doug Steel)
wrote:

"Ian Henden" wrote in message ...
..... but not expected so close to home.

Very busy roundabout (Fareham, A27/A32 Market roundabout). Very busy time
of day. (yesterday, 17th).

Roundabout has cycle *routes* nearby which provide safe routes for cyclists,
to avoid roundabout.

I would never dream of using the 'cycle routes'. They are utterly
useless and downright dangerous. Not to mention the fact that they add
a hell of a distance and lots of stop-give-way.

I know that roundabout too.
Also remember that Henden is a well-known anti-cyclist bus driver and
has often advocated that cyclists should be compelled to use facilities
'provided for them'.


"The bus driver was arrested at the scene and was released last night
on police bail
after he was questioned."

Good to see a proper investigation carried out; location closed and
treated as a crime scene according to the article.

Excellent, tho' it won't stop Henden bleating.

John B

Doug Steel wrote:

"Ian Henden" wrote in message ...


snip

Sadly, lady cyclist killed under wheels of a bus on the roundabout.

If *only she had used the cycle routes*.........


Do you know the facts of the accident ?

Without such details you simply cannot state that using the cycle
routes would have been any safer. As it stands, it appears to me,
you have made a cynical attempt at putting the blame on the cyclist.
The cyclist had a right to be on the road and without knowing what
happened
you should not try to place blame.

Regardless of blame, it would be very unlucky to be caught under the
wheels of a bus, on a pavement cycletrack.

MrBitsy

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 13:38:35 +0000, MrBitsy
wrote:

Doug Steel wrote:

"Ian Henden" wrote in message ...


snip

Sadly, lady cyclist killed under wheels of a bus on the roundabout.

If *only she had used the cycle routes*.........


Do you know the facts of the accident ?

Without such details you simply cannot state that using the cycle
routes would have been any safer. As it stands, it appears to me,
you have made a cynical attempt at putting the blame on the cyclist.
The cyclist had a right to be on the road and without knowing what
happened
you should not try to place blame.

Regardless of blame, it would be very unlucky to be caught under the
wheels of a bus, on a pavement cycletrack.


Especially as there isn't one there.

MrBitsy wrote:
Doug Steel wrote:
"Ian Henden" wrote in message
...
Sadly, lady cyclist killed under wheels of a bus on the roundabout.

If *only she had used the cycle routes*.........
Do you know the facts of the accident ?

Without such details you simply cannot state that using the cycle
routes would have been any safer. As it stands, it appears to me, you
have made a cynical attempt at putting the blame on the cyclist.
The cyclist had a right to be on the road and without knowing what
happened
you should not try to place blame.

Regardless of blame, it would be very unlucky to be caught under the
wheels of a bus, on a pavement cycletrack.

To turn this around:
"Regardless of blame, it would be very unlucky to be caught
under the wheels of a bus, on the road."

Wherever it was, it was unlucky and unfortunate. To make out that
the cyclist was somehow at fault for *being on the road* is crass
cynicism at its worst.

We might as well say things like "if *only she had been driving a
Challenger tank*", for what its worth - she wasn't.

Don't blame the victim for doing something she was entitled to do.

Until we know the facts its best to leave blame out of it.

Doug

"MrBitsy" wrote in message
...

Regardless of blame, it would be very unlucky to be caught under the
wheels of a bus, on a pavement cycletrack.

Would it be impertinent to ask why you don't give cycling the same care you
give to car driving? Ie time spent learning how to improve, both practical
and theory? I would suggest the latter could be handled in the first
instance by getting a copy of 'Cyclecraft', whereas the former could be
anything from going out for a ride to formal instruction, with club riding
offering something in between. And just think, unlike the hours you spend
with IAM etc, you'll be doing your body some good on the way!

(relevance? as an 'advanced' cyclist you'd understand that a pavement
cycletrack is a worse place to be than the road).

clive

MrBitsy wrote:

Regardless of blame, it would be very unlucky to be caught under the
wheels of a bus, on a pavement cycletrack.

Though if you do some research you'll find that, despite the absence of
buses on a typical day, pavement cycletracks are actually more dangerous
to cycle on than simply using the roads. Not a "common sense" answer,
perhaps, but that's what the numbers say very clearly. Which is a good
enough reason in itself not to use them, but the fact that they're
usually slower too is usually the final nail in the coffin.

People often wonder why cyclists don't use the facilities they're
provided with. And in many cases the answer is "because they're worse
than what we had already".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

(Doug Steel) wrote in message . com...

Some more details are he

http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps...EWS_NEWS0.html

Now apparently moved to he
http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps..._NEWS09ZM.html
or http://makeashorterlink.com/?N39C23577 .

--
Dave...

On 19 Feb 2004 08:33:03 -0800, (Dave Kahn) wrote:

(Doug Steel) wrote in message . com...

Some more details are he

http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps...EWS_NEWS0.html

Now apparently moved to he
http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps..._NEWS09ZM.html
or http://makeashorterlink.com/?N39C23577 .


And a few more details here
http://www.thisishampshire.net/hamps...EWS_NEWS1.html

Including "... Sgt Faulkner advised cyclists to be wary when on the
roads and reminded them to wear high-visibility clothing and helmets
and to use cycleways wherever possible."

None of which would have helped this girl as she was in daylight, wore
a helmet and didn't even have the option of even the crappiest cycle
lane in the vicinity.