Lemond, Heiden, Cruz to appear at LA Track WC

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam wrote in message
news
"B. Lafferty" wrote:




snip

As for Eric Heiden...they would have been better off inviting a gold
medalist
in track cycling rather than ice skating.

Phil

They did, Marty Nothstein will be racing this weekend, he looks fit, I
think he is doing the scratch race, then teaming with Colby for the Madison

Dave

From Morgan Fletcher:

[Eric Heiden]
"If you have nothing nice to say,

Eric brought a lot of visibility and credibility to cycling. National Road
champ in '85. Became an ortho surgeon. General credit to humanity from anything
I've ever heard/read (not being any kind of "insider" of course). --TP

From Morgan Fletcher:

[Eric Heiden]
"If you have nothing nice to say,

Eric brought a lot of visibility and credibility to cycling. National Road
champ in '85. Became an ortho surgeon. General credit to humanity from anything
I've ever heard/read (not being any kind of "insider" of course). --TP

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam wrote in message
news
"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Badger" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 04:32:25 GMT, Mike Gladu
wrote:

LEMOND, HEIDEN TO APPEAR AT LOS ANGELES WORLD CUP
American Cycling Legend and Five-time Olympic Gold Medalist Help
Celebrate World Class Track Cycling in L.A.

Colorado Springs, Colo. (December 8, 2004) champion and American
cycling
legend Greg LeMond and five-time Olympic
gold medalist Eric Heiden are scheduled to be special guests at the
upcoming UCI World Cup event at the ADT Event Center Dec. 10-12.

LeMond will be appearing on Friday, Dec. 10...

Hmm. That could get ugly, though I believe most ppl will be gracious,
particularly after viewing the 'Fearless' ep. GL seems like a nice
enough
guy, even though many don't take too kindly to his comments about a
certain
race winner. ;-)

-B

Perhaps the Lemond bashers will be more circumspect in light of what's
happened with Tyler Hamilton.

If Tyler is found not guilty by the CAS, how will you reconcile that
decision
with all the accusations that say he is already guilty?

Unlikely, but it won't be decided until after the Lemond appearance.


Even if the CAS decides Hamilton is guilty, the question you have to ask is: is
the CAS qualified to adjudicate a scientific test that has never been cofirmed
by another scientific group? I think the answer is no. It's not really even
debatable.

If you look back to court cases and the level of science that it took to get
DNA evidence validated by courts, it's nothing like the scrutiny this blood
transfusion test has withstood, which is basically nothing.

Phil

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam wrote in message
news
"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Badger" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 04:32:25 GMT, Mike Gladu
wrote:

LEMOND, HEIDEN TO APPEAR AT LOS ANGELES WORLD CUP
American Cycling Legend and Five-time Olympic Gold Medalist Help
Celebrate World Class Track Cycling in L.A.

Colorado Springs, Colo. (December 8, 2004) champion and American
cycling
legend Greg LeMond and five-time Olympic
gold medalist Eric Heiden are scheduled to be special guests at the
upcoming UCI World Cup event at the ADT Event Center Dec. 10-12.

LeMond will be appearing on Friday, Dec. 10...

Hmm. That could get ugly, though I believe most ppl will be gracious,
particularly after viewing the 'Fearless' ep. GL seems like a nice
enough
guy, even though many don't take too kindly to his comments about a
certain
race winner. ;-)

-B

Perhaps the Lemond bashers will be more circumspect in light of what's
happened with Tyler Hamilton.

If Tyler is found not guilty by the CAS, how will you reconcile that
decision
with all the accusations that say he is already guilty?

Unlikely, but it won't be decided until after the Lemond appearance.


Even if the CAS decides Hamilton is guilty, the question you have to ask is: is
the CAS qualified to adjudicate a scientific test that has never been cofirmed
by another scientific group? I think the answer is no. It's not really even
debatable.

If you look back to court cases and the level of science that it took to get
DNA evidence validated by courts, it's nothing like the scrutiny this blood
transfusion test has withstood, which is basically nothing.

Phil

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam wrote in message
news
"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Badger" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 04:32:25 GMT, Mike Gladu
wrote:

LEMOND, HEIDEN TO APPEAR AT LOS ANGELES WORLD CUP
American Cycling Legend and Five-time Olympic Gold Medalist Help
Celebrate World Class Track Cycling in L.A.

Colorado Springs, Colo. (December 8, 2004) champion and American
cycling
legend Greg LeMond and five-time Olympic
gold medalist Eric Heiden are scheduled to be special guests at the
upcoming UCI World Cup event at the ADT Event Center Dec. 10-12.

LeMond will be appearing on Friday, Dec. 10...

Hmm. That could get ugly, though I believe most ppl will be gracious,
particularly after viewing the 'Fearless' ep. GL seems like a nice
enough
guy, even though many don't take too kindly to his comments about a
certain
race winner. ;-)

-B

Perhaps the Lemond bashers will be more circumspect in light of what's
happened with Tyler Hamilton.

If Tyler is found not guilty by the CAS, how will you reconcile that
decision
with all the accusations that say he is already guilty?

Unlikely, but it won't be decided until after the Lemond appearance.


LeMond has no specific evidence other than a verbal argument on a cell
phone he
got into with Lance after accusing him of having some kind of "secret"
which
LeMond himself apparently cannot name. It's like accusing someone of a
crime,
not knowing what crime it is, and then saying it's your 'little secret'
because
you won't confess to it.

Lemond's assessment of Dr. Ferrari was spot on. Since making his comments,
Dr. Ferrari has been found guilty of criminal charges relating to doping.
Dr. Ferrari was Armstrong and Postals long time paid consultant. Lemond was
quite accurate in pointing out an association with a Dr. of highly
questionable ethics as to doping.


Dr. Ferarri was only convicted of telling athletes how to use EPO. He was NOT
convicted of providing them drugs nor administering them drugs. In other
words, he was convicted of reciting what the EPO package insert says. This
qualified as sporting fraud in Italy.

I wouldn't rule out an appeal or it being overturned. But even if it's not
overturned, 'associating with Ferrari' is hardly a scandal given his vast
knowledge of the sport. I myself have consulted with him from time to time
about his vertical ascent calculations as they relate to fitness. Am I now
under suspicion of purveying drugs?

LeMond's accusations are really nothing that would have any relevance in a
courtroom proceeding and are indistinguishable from heresay.

What drugs does LeMond think Lance took to win his sixth Tour? Answer: none.
LeMond's not big on details and facts, I guess.

Also, you have to question LeMond's motive about "not liking what I see
happening to the sport (i.e. with drugs)." Greg LeMond really tarnished his
legacy with these melodramatic statements and unfounded accusations against
Lance. If he had something relevant to say other than a cell phone fight with
Lance who was1,000 miles away, I'd be interested to hear it.

It's important to sieve relevant information from noise. What LeMond says is
common knowledge, and has a very low signal to noise ratio.

Phil

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam wrote in message
news
"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Badger" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 04:32:25 GMT, Mike Gladu
wrote:

LEMOND, HEIDEN TO APPEAR AT LOS ANGELES WORLD CUP
American Cycling Legend and Five-time Olympic Gold Medalist Help
Celebrate World Class Track Cycling in L.A.

Colorado Springs, Colo. (December 8, 2004) champion and American
cycling
legend Greg LeMond and five-time Olympic
gold medalist Eric Heiden are scheduled to be special guests at the
upcoming UCI World Cup event at the ADT Event Center Dec. 10-12.

LeMond will be appearing on Friday, Dec. 10...

Hmm. That could get ugly, though I believe most ppl will be gracious,
particularly after viewing the 'Fearless' ep. GL seems like a nice
enough
guy, even though many don't take too kindly to his comments about a
certain
race winner. ;-)

-B

Perhaps the Lemond bashers will be more circumspect in light of what's
happened with Tyler Hamilton.

If Tyler is found not guilty by the CAS, how will you reconcile that
decision
with all the accusations that say he is already guilty?

Unlikely, but it won't be decided until after the Lemond appearance.


LeMond has no specific evidence other than a verbal argument on a cell
phone he
got into with Lance after accusing him of having some kind of "secret"
which
LeMond himself apparently cannot name. It's like accusing someone of a
crime,
not knowing what crime it is, and then saying it's your 'little secret'
because
you won't confess to it.

Lemond's assessment of Dr. Ferrari was spot on. Since making his comments,
Dr. Ferrari has been found guilty of criminal charges relating to doping.
Dr. Ferrari was Armstrong and Postals long time paid consultant. Lemond was
quite accurate in pointing out an association with a Dr. of highly
questionable ethics as to doping.


Dr. Ferarri was only convicted of telling athletes how to use EPO. He was NOT
convicted of providing them drugs nor administering them drugs. In other
words, he was convicted of reciting what the EPO package insert says. This
qualified as sporting fraud in Italy.

I wouldn't rule out an appeal or it being overturned. But even if it's not
overturned, 'associating with Ferrari' is hardly a scandal given his vast
knowledge of the sport. I myself have consulted with him from time to time
about his vertical ascent calculations as they relate to fitness. Am I now
under suspicion of purveying drugs?

LeMond's accusations are really nothing that would have any relevance in a
courtroom proceeding and are indistinguishable from heresay.

What drugs does LeMond think Lance took to win his sixth Tour? Answer: none.
LeMond's not big on details and facts, I guess.

Also, you have to question LeMond's motive about "not liking what I see
happening to the sport (i.e. with drugs)." Greg LeMond really tarnished his
legacy with these melodramatic statements and unfounded accusations against
Lance. If he had something relevant to say other than a cell phone fight with
Lance who was1,000 miles away, I'd be interested to hear it.

It's important to sieve relevant information from noise. What LeMond says is
common knowledge, and has a very low signal to noise ratio.

Phil

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam wrote in message
news
"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Badger" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 04:32:25 GMT, Mike Gladu
wrote:

LEMOND, HEIDEN TO APPEAR AT LOS ANGELES WORLD CUP
American Cycling Legend and Five-time Olympic Gold Medalist Help
Celebrate World Class Track Cycling in L.A.

Colorado Springs, Colo. (December 8, 2004) champion and American
cycling
legend Greg LeMond and five-time Olympic
gold medalist Eric Heiden are scheduled to be special guests at the
upcoming UCI World Cup event at the ADT Event Center Dec. 10-12.

LeMond will be appearing on Friday, Dec. 10...

Hmm. That could get ugly, though I believe most ppl will be gracious,
particularly after viewing the 'Fearless' ep. GL seems like a nice
enough
guy, even though many don't take too kindly to his comments about a
certain
race winner. ;-)

-B

Perhaps the Lemond bashers will be more circumspect in light of what's
happened with Tyler Hamilton.

If Tyler is found not guilty by the CAS, how will you reconcile that
decision
with all the accusations that say he is already guilty?

Unlikely, but it won't be decided until after the Lemond appearance.


LeMond has no specific evidence other than a verbal argument on a cell
phone he
got into with Lance after accusing him of having some kind of "secret"
which
LeMond himself apparently cannot name. It's like accusing someone of a
crime,
not knowing what crime it is, and then saying it's your 'little secret'
because
you won't confess to it.

Lemond's assessment of Dr. Ferrari was spot on. Since making his comments,
Dr. Ferrari has been found guilty of criminal charges relating to doping.
Dr. Ferrari was Armstrong and Postals long time paid consultant. Lemond was
quite accurate in pointing out an association with a Dr. of highly
questionable ethics as to doping.


LeMond is incredibly reckless in his quotes. He has virtually no
sponsorhip
draw these days and he's probably jealous that Lance has made him second
string
quarterback in the annals of the sport. It comes across as sour grapes.

In view of Dr. Ferrari's conviction and Hamilton's positives, Lemond is
looking more and more like a realist who spoke his mind up front and
forthrightly. How many other top riders are or have been blood doping the
past two years or so? As Manzano said, it's as easy as going into a
supermarket to buy a new pair of socks. Lemond is going to end up smelling
like a rose compared to Armstrong and Company.



Hamilton was not found to be positive yet under USADA or UCI protocol. The
entire purpose of the CAS hearing is to determine that.

If you think a trial is just some informal technicality, I'm not sure how you
justify going to work everyday as a lawyer. Tyler is not guilty of anything
right now, and he is free to show up at ANY USCF race he wants.

You are confusing Hamilton's test being called positive by testers verses being
called positive by the only body that matters: the Court of Arbitration of
Sport.

Phil

"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam wrote in message
news
"B. Lafferty" wrote:

"Badger" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 04:32:25 GMT, Mike Gladu
wrote:

LEMOND, HEIDEN TO APPEAR AT LOS ANGELES WORLD CUP
American Cycling Legend and Five-time Olympic Gold Medalist Help
Celebrate World Class Track Cycling in L.A.

Colorado Springs, Colo. (December 8, 2004) champion and American
cycling
legend Greg LeMond and five-time Olympic
gold medalist Eric Heiden are scheduled to be special guests at the
upcoming UCI World Cup event at the ADT Event Center Dec. 10-12.

LeMond will be appearing on Friday, Dec. 10...

Hmm. That could get ugly, though I believe most ppl will be gracious,
particularly after viewing the 'Fearless' ep. GL seems like a nice
enough
guy, even though many don't take too kindly to his comments about a
certain
race winner. ;-)

-B

Perhaps the Lemond bashers will be more circumspect in light of what's
happened with Tyler Hamilton.

If Tyler is found not guilty by the CAS, how will you reconcile that
decision
with all the accusations that say he is already guilty?

Unlikely, but it won't be decided until after the Lemond appearance.


LeMond has no specific evidence other than a verbal argument on a cell
phone he
got into with Lance after accusing him of having some kind of "secret"
which
LeMond himself apparently cannot name. It's like accusing someone of a
crime,
not knowing what crime it is, and then saying it's your 'little secret'
because
you won't confess to it.

Lemond's assessment of Dr. Ferrari was spot on. Since making his comments,
Dr. Ferrari has been found guilty of criminal charges relating to doping.
Dr. Ferrari was Armstrong and Postals long time paid consultant. Lemond was
quite accurate in pointing out an association with a Dr. of highly
questionable ethics as to doping.


LeMond is incredibly reckless in his quotes. He has virtually no
sponsorhip
draw these days and he's probably jealous that Lance has made him second
string
quarterback in the annals of the sport. It comes across as sour grapes.

In view of Dr. Ferrari's conviction and Hamilton's positives, Lemond is
looking more and more like a realist who spoke his mind up front and
forthrightly. How many other top riders are or have been blood doping the
past two years or so? As Manzano said, it's as easy as going into a
supermarket to buy a new pair of socks. Lemond is going to end up smelling
like a rose compared to Armstrong and Company.



Hamilton was not found to be positive yet under USADA or UCI protocol. The
entire purpose of the CAS hearing is to determine that.

If you think a trial is just some informal technicality, I'm not sure how you
justify going to work everyday as a lawyer. Tyler is not guilty of anything
right now, and he is free to show up at ANY USCF race he wants.

You are confusing Hamilton's test being called positive by testers verses being
called positive by the only body that matters: the Court of Arbitration of
Sport.

Phil

"Phil phil@ .net " "no spam a écrit dans le message de :
...
Even if the CAS decides Hamilton is guilty, the question you have to ask
is: is
the CAS qualified to adjudicate a scientific test that has never been
cofirmed
by another scientific group? I think the answer is no. It's not really
even
debatable.

Phil

I can't imagine where you get your law from. Marvel comics ?
They are qualified to adjudicate, as they are the agreed forum.
If it is capable of adjudication, then their competence relies on the fact
that the two sides agreed that they were competent !
Please venture not where wise men fear to tread.
--
Bonne route,

Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR