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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
Im hoping some of our European friends will comment here. I know the US is
famous for class mobility, but I was under the impression that class immobility was a thing of the past even in Europe... especially after the two world wars shook up the social structure. Bob obviously disagrees..and he's been there, which gives him a big advantage over me (a "dumbass", no doubt). What do our European friends think? Rigid class structure and social pressure to stay put? Or is social mobility now the norm? thanks, steve -- "The accused will now make a bogus statement." James Joyce |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:56:22 GMT, "steve" a écrit :
Im hoping some of our European friends will comment here. I know the US is famous for class mobility, but I was under the impression that class immobility was a thing of the past even in Europe... especially after the two world wars shook up the social structure. Bob obviously disagrees..and he's been there, which gives him a big advantage over me (a "dumbass", no doubt). What do our European friends think? Rigid class structure and social pressure to stay put? Or is social mobility now the norm? thanks, steve Davey thinks Roll is an uncouth, ignorant, semi literate slob with an IQ somewhere around 4O and who has difficulty stringing more than two words together to form a coherent sentence and who definitely isn't qualified to comment on anything more profound than what he had for breakfast. There Roll, it's payback time Remember shouting your usual garbage at an older rider in the Place Massena in July 1988? |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does
mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class of the US. There are some slight chances for inter-caste mobility both in Europe and the US - either with a lucky, huge lottery win, or as in some cases, those lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time during the internet boom. In any case, if you aren't already wealthy, you've missed out. Revtom steve wrote: Im hoping some of our European friends will comment here. I know the US is famous for class mobility, but I was under the impression that class immobility was a thing of the past even in Europe... especially after the two world wars shook up the social structure. Bob obviously disagrees..and he's been there, which gives him a big advantage over me (a "dumbass", no doubt). What do our European friends think? Rigid class structure and social pressure to stay put? Or is social mobility now the norm? thanks, steve -- "The accused will now make a bogus statement." James Joyce |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
"Revtom" wrote in message
oups.com... The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class of the US. See? I told you that idiots are everywhere. Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low - Miami - are $35K/year. What's more, 95% of ALL taxes are paid by the upper half of all income earners. Did you know that you can own your own home and have a new car and be on welfare? This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying. Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their ability if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can discover simply by talking to any factory worker. Too bad that revtom doesn't understand what he doesn't understand. |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
Tom Kunich wrote:
"Revtom" wrote in message oups.com... Unsubstantiated accusations The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class of the US. are followed by wishful thinking This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying. Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their ability if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can discover simply by talking to any factory worker. Of course, one can read more widely and get closer to the truth. The recent Economist article has already been cited. Here are others: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0127/p21s01-coop.html http://www.cipa-apex.org/toomuch/art...05/May23a.html and an interesting summary of the research: http://www.urban.org/publications/406722.html As an immigrant and naturalized citizen the great appeal of the US is that amidst the clutter and noise of the extremists, there is the calm center where reasoned discussion prevails. Although, of late, it seems that the center has shrunk or maybe it's just because I'm spending my time on rbr. Gabe Brovedani |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
On 16-Aug-2006, smacked up and reeling, Gabe Brovedani
blindly formulated the following incoherence: Of course, one can read more widely and get closer to the truth. The recent Economist article has already been cited. Here are others: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0127/p21s01-coop.html A distinction should be made between the ability and opportunity for one to ascend socially/economically and the actual practice of doing so. If one is content to suck the public teat, make no effort, and gain no ground...well that is certainly a failure of govt policy and personal initiative, but not necessarily one of economic and class structure. The CSM article doesnt draw this distinction. I cant say how Europe compares to the US (other than to repeat some opinions I've heard from the Europeans Ive talked to on the subject...all agreeing that the US offers more opportunity) but it is clear (to anyone with eyes) that virtually anyone who is willing to work hard can get ahead here in the US. Perhaps unfortunately, even those who are unwilling to work can do quite well, and that, I believe, is a big reason why so many do not work to get ahead. That is not to say that there arent unfortunates who are worthy of charitable assistance, but that the institutionalization of assistance has created a perverse economic disincentive for a large underclass. It's shameful. steve -- "The accused will now make a bogus statement." James Joyce |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
steve wrote:
On 16-Aug-2006, smacked up and reeling, Gabe Brovedani blindly formulated the following incoherence: hey, that's insulting Of course, one can read more widely and get closer to the truth. The recent Economist article has already been cited. Here are others: http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0127/p21s01-coop.html A distinction should be made between the ability and opportunity for one to ascend socially/economically and the actual practice of doing so. If one is content to suck the public teat, make no effort, and gain no ground...well that is certainly a failure of govt policy and personal initiative, but not necessarily one of economic and class structure. The CSM article doesnt draw this distinction. Hey, I agree, which is why you should have read the last linked article which made your very point, among others. Who's an incoherently blind formula now? Gabe Brovedani |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message nk.net... "Revtom" wrote in message oups.com... The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class of the US. See? I told you that idiots are everywhere. Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low - Miami - are $35K/year. Try Arkansas or Mississippi for very low wages and 'brain drain'. |
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message nk.net... "Revtom" wrote in message oups.com... The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class of the US. See? I told you that idiots are everywhere. Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low - Miami - are $35K/year. What's more, 95% of ALL taxes are paid by the upper half of all income earners. Did you know that you can own your own home and have a new car and be on welfare? This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying. Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their ability if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can discover simply by talking to any factory worker. Too bad that revtom doesn't understand what he doesn't understand. Read and learn. http://www.classism.org/index.php |
#10
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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments
"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
nk.net... "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message nk.net... "Revtom" wrote in message oups.com... The rigid class system in the US is rarely spoken of, and if one does mention it, the neo-cons immediately cry out "class warfare!!". They don't want any attention drawn to the rapidly disappearing middle class of the US. See? I told you that idiots are everywhere. Why imagine the fright Europeans have when they discover that the median income for the "lower" classes in a place where wages are very low - Miami - are $35K/year. What's more, 95% of ALL taxes are paid by the upper half of all income earners. Did you know that you can own your own home and have a new car and be on welfare? This is the class system that people in the United States are decrying. Moreover, EVERY person in the USA can move up to the limits of their ability if they wish. In Europe that simply isn't the case as you can discover simply by talking to any factory worker. Too bad that revtom doesn't understand what he doesn't understand. Read and learn. http://www.classism.org/index.php I suggest you shut you pie hole idiot. I came from the bottom of the class system to rise to upper middle class. All along the way I met people who had started at the bottom and become rich and in some cases famous. And all along the way I watch people who started at the top with silver spoons in their mouths become homeless dope addicts sleeping in doorways in Berkeley and San Francisco. You rose FAR above you ability and decry the fact that people finally noticed. |
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