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#22
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Is anyone clean?
"Tuschinski" wrote in message ups.com... But the MAJORITY of riders do not use illegal performance enhancing drugs. Tom, besides the huge scandals (wich have a scary tendency to return..), riders as Rooks, Ducrot and Winnen stated that (almost) everyone used. Especially Rooks has a "Palmares" that would make envy/grudge unlikely. What is also very disconcerting that people as Manzano seem to have been telling the truth, though EVERYONE denied it. See: The Spanish cycling federation (RFEC) has condemned Manzano but said it will launch an investigation into his claims, though it will be limited because Manzano does not currently hold a licence. The RFEC called on the media not to assume "these prohibited practices are generally carried out within cycling." http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ar04/mar25news Following the damaging confessions of Jesus Manzano, who offered detailed allegations of systematic doping within his former Kelme team, the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) issued its own statement aimed less at the doping practices mentioned than at the allegations themselves. Referring to Manzano's accusations as "a day of massacre", the international cycling federation once more found itself on the defensive concerning notions of widespread doping in the peloton. "Since the beginning of the year, cycling has been the focus of numerous attacks which have severely prejudiced the image of our sport and the honour of its participants," said a UCI statement, quoted in l'Equipe. Calling Manzano a rider "not beyond reproach," the UCI regretted the continued practice of doping in the peloton but asserted that the majority of riders are clean, citing a figure that blood tests show more than 90% of the peloton to be clean. "The UCI will react against anyone who tarnishes the image of cycling and the riders," the statement continued, adding that the UCI is prepared to take legal action against "all who, by their actions, do such damage to cycling's image." http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...r04/mar25news2 Eufemiano Fuentes, a doctor who worked with the Kelme team and Jesus Manzano, has denied giving the cyclist any illegal substances. "If Jesus Manzano did these things it was hidden from the team," Fuentes was quoted by El Diario Vasco as saying. "We have no knowledge of what Manzano has said goes on within the team." However, a close friend of Manzano's, José Luis Montoya, called Fuentes a "hypocrite" on the Spanish Antenna 3 TV station. "When I read this in the newspaper, it has particularly incensed me," he told AS. "In the first place, that this gentleman says that Manzano hid all this from the team, is a total lie. This man is a hypocrite. He was not hiding it, far from it. I took Jesus Manzano from here (Zarzalejos) to a hotel in Torrejon de Ardoz to see this gentleman. There I found myself with cyclists from all over Spain who were there doing exactly the same thing. He gave us a prescription, we went to a certain pharmacy in Madrid to get certain medical products. I have spoken to Jesus and asked him if he still had the prescriptions Eufemiano gave him. He still has them in the gentleman's own handwriting and with his signature." http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...ar04/mar29news Verbruggen commented on the Jesus Manzano case, saying, "What Manzano has said has had a great deal of repercussions and I lament and deplore [what has happened]. I don't know if what he says is true, I expect not, but the fact is that he has spoken out and there is an investigation in motion that will clarify things. But when the press starts to pay for these type of statements always there will always be riders willing to tell 'their' stories, and we cannot do anything about that." http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...pr04/apr22news |
#23
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Is anyone clean?
On 6 Jun 2006 02:40:22 -0700, "Tuschinski" wrote:
Consider this: I am a clean Pro. Someone beats me and it comes out that he has been using Dope. I would sue him to kingdom come! He stole my victory! Yet this doesn't happen at all.... Why? I assume that if this was a sanctioned race and a rider was to test positive, he would be disqualified. |
#24
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Is anyone clean?
"Simon Brooke" wrote in message news:ep0gl3- In Britain I believe more people die of accidents in their beds each year than die cycling. Furthermore, 17% of heart attacks are said to be caused by sex. All in all, you're /much/ safer out on your bike (although sex on your bike probably isn't that safe). 95 percent of the facts that you read in newsgroups are made up. |
#25
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Is anyone clean?
On Tue, 06 Jun 2006 11:08:14 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote: The bedroom and the living room are the most common locations for accidents in general." When I was young I had a serious accident in bed. His name is David. |
#26
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Is anyone clean?
On Tue, 6 Jun 2006 06:28:48 -0700, "Frank Drackman"
wrote: 95 percent of the facts that you read in newsgroups are made up. Yet I am fully prepared to believe the 5% I agree with are 100% true... Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) "The simple truth is too much for us; we don't like those who unmask our illusions." - Ralph Waldo Emerson |
#27
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Is anyone clean?
B. Lafferty wrote:
"Andre" wrote in message ups.com... Tom Kunich wrote: B. Lafferty wrote: "Tom Kunich" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Watched the prologue to the Dauphine yesterday after having been too busy to follow pro cycling for a few months. Almost the entire broadcast seemed to be taken up with who was out of the race for doping, who was allowed in even though they're suspected, which teams are gone, which might be gone for the TDF this year. It was unreal. Maybe I haven't been following the pro cycling long enough so I'm a naive wide-eyed idealist, but it was insane to listen to an hour and a half of OLN basically explaining who has and hasn't been caught doping, more or less. When you have Armstrong's former right hand man (Haras), a former teammate (Hamilton), an entire team undera cloud (Phonak) and on and on and on it's hard not to wonder if it's not time just to cancel the TDF and wait until there is real testing in place. And please don't give me the (baseball players use steroids) argument. I don't watch baseball. I stopped watching long ago. And I'll stop watching cycling if every race is a jig-saw puzzle of who got caught and who didn't. Not so much because it screws with the integrity of the sport (although it does destroy what little integrity is left), but more because it's boring to watch a sport where half of the discussion and drama is about cheating. There is cheating in professional sports! Isn't that a surprise? Cyclnig has its fair share of the cheaters since endurance sports are most likely to be enhanced by undetectable or nearly so drugs. Surprised? But the MAJORITY of riders do not use illegal performance enhancing drugs. I'm sort of remaining neutral on the blood packing stuff. You've been writing here since at least 1994 that there is no serious doping problem in cycling. Hundreds of positives have put the lie to that Kunich absurdity. Add some 200 blood doping riders to your "minority." And that was only one operation in Spain. There are others. I'm wondering what an "honest" rider does to defend himself against undetectable drugs that boost hematocrit to the legal limit. Simpleton. You just don't get it. The blood dopers inject the blood before racing but after the vampires might strike. They don't get blood tested after the race and can rehydrate/dilute the crit by dawn. You don't need drugs like EPO anymore. EPO by microdose is for the poorer members of the peloton at this point. Autologous blood transfusions are probably as safe a preparation as you can make. I don't like them but legalizing them would certainly put a kink in the EPO traffikers. There can be adverse reactions to autologus transfusions from a number of causes, including improper storage and transport. Hopefully, there will be a test for autologous transfusions in the next year. Do you think that might have been the underlying cause of Basso's problems in last year's Giro? There's the old Brian we all know and laugh at. You really believe that more drugs = more wins so there's really no reason for you to have any interest in racing nor in attending this group save your belief that we all MUST be convinced that racing is tainted. I hate to point this out, but there might just as likely be adverse reactions to simple vitamin injections as to autologous transfusions but then you probably already know that and this is simply your way of shaking the grass hut. But just out of curiosity - do you actually believe that anyone pays the slightest attention to anything you have to say anymore? I like Lafferty, he seems honest in his beliefs; I like Tom Kunich cause he answers my questions; I like trg cause everything is "candyass" although he has horrible taste in women (just kidding..une blague); I like that Gorilla guy cause he's just crazy, And the "dumbass" guy is funny and witty. Bob Martin is ok too, but all that math scares me. But my question is for Lafferty, cause he appears to be into the drug scandal pretty deep: A while ago it came out that Lance had invested some money into a lab that tests for drugs in cyclists, I don't know all the details, but do you think he did it to cover himself or so that other riders would not be able to use the drugs themselves and thus out-perform him? This was discussed here a while ago. IMO, it represents a clear conflict of interest for the UCI to accept such a gift. As to Armstrong's intentions in making the gift, best ask Armstrong. Brian at his comedic best. Lance bought MODERN detection equipment for the UCI so that they could detect much smaller doses. Obviously having greater detecting power is a conflict of interest to a lawyer. |
#28
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Is anyone clean?
Tuschinski wrote:
But the MAJORITY of riders do not use illegal performance enhancing drugs. Tom, besides the huge scandals (wich have a scary tendency to return..), riders as Rooks, Ducrot and Winnen stated that (almost) everyone used. Especially Rooks has a "Palmares" that would make envy/grudge unlikely. What is also very disconcerting that people as Manzano seem to have been telling the truth, though EVERYONE denied it. Consider this: I am a clean Pro. Someone beats me and it comes out that he has been using Dope. I would sue him to kingdom come! He stole my victory! Yet this doesn't happen at all.... Why? These are indications that there is a "MAJORITY" using (blood)dope. Autologous blood transfusions are probably as safe a preparation as you can make. If done in a LAB, yes. If done uncontrolled maybe less so? I don't like them but legalizing them would certainly put a kink in the EPO traffikers. Legalizing would probably make it safer. Let's remember that Rooks pal Jan-Gert Theunisse looked like a monster and was obviously using large amounts of steroids. Steven himself never took on that look but nevertheless if he was using he had plenty of reasons to claim it as self defense wouldn't you think? The ONLY reason I would support blood packing is because thwarting EPO use is more important. Since they've set the limit on Hct everyone seems to be right on the limit. But it's even more important to understand that those who are smartest wouldn't be on the limit at all since it is purely the NUMBER of red blood cells that are in the body which is critical and not the density in the blood. Simply transfusing a pint of your own would increase your ability to transfer oxygen and no one would be the wiser. And no one would be able to detect it either regardless of the dumb things you see printed by UCI. |
#29
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Is anyone clean?
"Tom Kunich" wrote in message ups.com... B. Lafferty wrote: "Andre" wrote in message ups.com... Tom Kunich wrote: B. Lafferty wrote: "Tom Kunich" wrote in message oups.com... wrote: Watched the prologue to the Dauphine yesterday after having been too busy to follow pro cycling for a few months. Almost the entire broadcast seemed to be taken up with who was out of the race for doping, who was allowed in even though they're suspected, which teams are gone, which might be gone for the TDF this year. It was unreal. Maybe I haven't been following the pro cycling long enough so I'm a naive wide-eyed idealist, but it was insane to listen to an hour and a half of OLN basically explaining who has and hasn't been caught doping, more or less. When you have Armstrong's former right hand man (Haras), a former teammate (Hamilton), an entire team undera cloud (Phonak) and on and on and on it's hard not to wonder if it's not time just to cancel the TDF and wait until there is real testing in place. And please don't give me the (baseball players use steroids) argument. I don't watch baseball. I stopped watching long ago. And I'll stop watching cycling if every race is a jig-saw puzzle of who got caught and who didn't. Not so much because it screws with the integrity of the sport (although it does destroy what little integrity is left), but more because it's boring to watch a sport where half of the discussion and drama is about cheating. There is cheating in professional sports! Isn't that a surprise? Cyclnig has its fair share of the cheaters since endurance sports are most likely to be enhanced by undetectable or nearly so drugs. Surprised? But the MAJORITY of riders do not use illegal performance enhancing drugs. I'm sort of remaining neutral on the blood packing stuff. You've been writing here since at least 1994 that there is no serious doping problem in cycling. Hundreds of positives have put the lie to that Kunich absurdity. Add some 200 blood doping riders to your "minority." And that was only one operation in Spain. There are others. I'm wondering what an "honest" rider does to defend himself against undetectable drugs that boost hematocrit to the legal limit. Simpleton. You just don't get it. The blood dopers inject the blood before racing but after the vampires might strike. They don't get blood tested after the race and can rehydrate/dilute the crit by dawn. You don't need drugs like EPO anymore. EPO by microdose is for the poorer members of the peloton at this point. Autologous blood transfusions are probably as safe a preparation as you can make. I don't like them but legalizing them would certainly put a kink in the EPO traffikers. There can be adverse reactions to autologus transfusions from a number of causes, including improper storage and transport. Hopefully, there will be a test for autologous transfusions in the next year. Do you think that might have been the underlying cause of Basso's problems in last year's Giro? There's the old Brian we all know and laugh at. You really believe that more drugs = more wins so there's really no reason for you to have any interest in racing nor in attending this group save your belief that we all MUST be convinced that racing is tainted. I hate to point this out, but there might just as likely be adverse reactions to simple vitamin injections as to autologous transfusions but then you probably already know that and this is simply your way of shaking the grass hut. But just out of curiosity - do you actually believe that anyone pays the slightest attention to anything you have to say anymore? I like Lafferty, he seems honest in his beliefs; I like Tom Kunich cause he answers my questions; I like trg cause everything is "candyass" although he has horrible taste in women (just kidding..une blague); I like that Gorilla guy cause he's just crazy, And the "dumbass" guy is funny and witty. Bob Martin is ok too, but all that math scares me. But my question is for Lafferty, cause he appears to be into the drug scandal pretty deep: A while ago it came out that Lance had invested some money into a lab that tests for drugs in cyclists, I don't know all the details, but do you think he did it to cover himself or so that other riders would not be able to use the drugs themselves and thus out-perform him? This was discussed here a while ago. IMO, it represents a clear conflict of interest for the UCI to accept such a gift. As to Armstrong's intentions in making the gift, best ask Armstrong. Brian at his comedic best. Lance bought MODERN detection equipment for the UCI so that they could detect much smaller doses. Obviously having greater detecting power is a conflict of interest to a lawyer. Armstrong's UCI contributions are disturbing Editor: Learning that Lance Armstrong has donated money to the UCI for drug-testing research was disturbing (See Thursday's Eurofile). It seems like too much of a conflict of interest. I am not surprised that he wanted to keep it quiet, seeing as it is analogous to Al Capone donating money to Chicago's police force. An ethical governing body should not be accepting donations from those that they intend to fairly and impartially govern over. Tyler, you should have also been taking notes on Lance's strategies off the bike while you were on USPS. Steve McDonnell West Lafayette, Indiana Contributions smack of payoffs Editor: The title of Andrew Hood's article, "Armstrong aids in anti-doping effort," is an absolute joke. Any athlete who "contributes" money to the governing body that oversees that athlete's drug testing is improper. Can you spell p-a-y-o-f-f, VeloNews? Is it any wonder the UCI let him have a back-dated prescription when he tested positive in 1999? Coincidental? Use your brain. If Barry Bonds gave money to MLB would you look at it as a wonderful aid or covering his ass? I forgot, Barry Bonds didn't survive cancer. Danica Nittolo Boston, Massachusetts Looks like a conflict of interest Editor: The UCI is accepting under-the-table monies from parties they are responsible for overseeing. Shouldn't this raise serious integrity and conflict-of-interest issues for the UCI? Isn't this action illegal? Shouldn't all race results achieved by Lance Armstrong since the date the monies traded hands be forfeited? Shouldn't all recent UCI actions (especially the Hamilton fiasco) be put under the microscope in light of this news? Derek Parchinski St. Marys, Georgia http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/7918.0.html (no indication that the letter writers are lawyers) |
#30
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Is anyone clean?
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
wrote: . And please don't give me the (baseball players use steroids) argument. I don't watch baseball. I stopped watching long ago. And I'll stop watching cycling if every race is a jig-saw puzzle of who got caught and who didn't. snip Newbie - Please take your own advice and stop watching. Take your holier-than-thou attitude and go away. You will be happier and so will we. ????? thank you very much for your cooperation, K. Gringioni. I don't cooperate. Hate to disappoint. I'm sorry if you think I'm a "rube" for wanting to watch a sport where athletes don't cheat. I mean, minus the invective, your point is probably the most accurate. If everyone cheats, then what's the point in watching? Across the board? Some of us enjoy sports not just to see who wins or loses, but because sports on an individual level mean something about pushing yourself and we like to watch others do the same, but at a much higher level. The cheating taints it for us. So yeah, maybe I should stop watching. But lose the invective, because while you might think my attitude is holier than thou, at least I have a moral compass beyond just wanting to watch the gladiators joust for my enjoyment. I want more out of sport than that. If that makes me a newb, so be it. Preston |
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