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"Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments



 
 
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  #91  
Old August 18th 06, 04:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Simon Brooke
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Default "Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments

in message om,
') wrote:


Simon Brooke wrote:
in message . com,
') wrote:

Race is a factor in the "New World" in a way that it isn't in Europe
because Europe is still so homogeneous. You want to start seeing
some uncomfortable race issues, look at South American soap operas
then look at the people on the streets there. Europeans have the
luxury of having a different attitude about race because it is
someting they just don't have to deal with.


Which planet was it that you said you lived on?


;-)

There is no doubt that European countries have much more homgeneous
populations than the US. Most European people in their daily lives have
much less oppurtunity to interact with people of different races that
people in the US. Less interaction, less conflict, less thought about
the issue.


8% of the population of Great Britain are of afro-carribean or south
asian ethnicity, vs 12.3% of the US population. It's fewer, but it isn't
an order of magnitude fewer. Admittedly, they're highly concentrated in
London, Birmingham and a few other English industrial cities, but then
the black population of the US is also highly concentrated.

I'm not saying everyone in Europe is a bigot or that the US has
"figured out" race relations. I'm just saying that race relations is
more of an abstract issue for most Europeans than it is for Americans.


If you say so, brother.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military
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  #92  
Old August 18th 06, 04:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Robert Chung
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Posts: 402
Default "Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments

wrote:
The poor
starving folks I was thinking of immigrated in the 20's.


Ah, depending on what you meant, that may be completely different
situation. In many cases (such as the one presented by Tom and his
starving great-grandmother) we talk about intergenerational income
mobility. That's why I waited until you mentioned that you were thinking
of individual income mobility.

It appears that intergenerational income mobility in the US reached its
peak for the cohorts after the first World War. Since then it has dropped.
Particularly in the last 30 or 40 years intergenerational income mobility
in the US has dropped below that of most European countries (though it is
roughly on par with the UK); this means that in the US, poor families are
more likely to beget poor kids and wealthy families to beget wealthy kids
than in most European countries.

The story about individual income mobility is more complex. In general,
that's the area where we're about in the middle of most European
countries. However, there are still some structural characteristics of the
American labor market that appear to make it more difficult for "working"
poor to cross the boundary. To reduce it to a soundbite, basically in the
US you have to change jobs in order to increase your income while in
Europe there are often income growth paths within the same firm. That
means that there are search costs and capital costs in re-training in the
US, which means that the poorest poor, who may have difficulty getting
access to surplus assets, have an additional barrier to income growth.


  #93  
Old August 18th 06, 05:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Robert Chung
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Default "Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments

wrote:

I live in Norway. Norway is supposed to be the poster child for how a
welfare state should work right?


Sez who?


  #95  
Old August 18th 06, 05:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 601
Default "Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments


Simon Brooke wrote:
in message om,
') wrote:


Simon Brooke wrote:
in message . com,
') wrote:

Race is a factor in the "New World" in a way that it isn't in Europe
because Europe is still so homogeneous. You want to start seeing
some uncomfortable race issues, look at South American soap operas
then look at the people on the streets there. Europeans have the
luxury of having a different attitude about race because it is
someting they just don't have to deal with.

Which planet was it that you said you lived on?


;-)

There is no doubt that European countries have much more homgeneous
populations than the US. Most European people in their daily lives have
much less oppurtunity to interact with people of different races that
people in the US. Less interaction, less conflict, less thought about
the issue.


8% of the population of Great Britain are of afro-carribean or south
asian ethnicity, vs 12.3% of the US population. It's fewer, but it isn't
an order of magnitude fewer. Admittedly, they're highly concentrated in
London, Birmingham and a few other English industrial cities, but then
the black population of the US is also highly concentrated.


I'm not talking just white and black!

81% of the US is "white" vs 92% in the UK. And white has I'm sure a
wider definition in the US than in the UK. The UK is one of the
European countries with the highest number of non-white people. The US
has at least twice as many non-white people (percentage-wise) as
Europe. This is a big difference.

I'm not saying everyone in Europe is a bigot or that the US has
"figured out" race relations. I'm just saying that race relations is
more of an abstract issue for most Europeans than it is for Americans.


If you say so, brother.


I'm glad to see you agree ;-)

Joseph

  #97  
Old August 18th 06, 05:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 601
Default "Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments


Sandy wrote:
a écrit :
Sandy wrote:

Simon Brooke a écrit :

in message . com,
') wrote:



Race is a factor in the "New World" in a way that it isn't in Europe
because Europe is still so homogeneous. You want to start seeing some
uncomfortable race issues, look at South American soap operas then look
at the people on the streets there. Europeans have the luxury of having
a different attitude about race because it is someting they just don't
have to deal with.


Which planet was it that you said you lived on?



He said it with the monochromatic bliss that comes from not living in
France, Germany, Italy, Belgium, Spain, Portugal or Holland. Maybe even
the outer reaches of your island kingdom.


I've lived in Paris and Switzerland and spent a fair amount of time in
Italy, Germany, Sweden, Denmark and Poland. I live in Norway. I also
grew up in NYC, went to school in Chicago, and lived in Los Angeles.
However my observations may be colored, it is not from lack of
observation.

Joseph


OK - not colored, if you insist.
Just plain wrong about the panoply of colors on the Old Continent.


Wrong perhaps, but maybe it is just a question of degree to which we
disagree. I do not mean to imply that Europe has no panoply of colors,
just that this panopoly is not as extensive as in the US, and thus most
people's relationship to this panopoly is not the same in both places.

Joseph

  #99  
Old August 18th 06, 08:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Michael Press
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Posts: 1,100
Default "Rigid Class System in Europe" Bob Roll Comments

In article

,

Howard Kveck wrote:

"The term White refers to people having origins in any of the original peoples of
Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa." It includes people who indicated their
race or races as "white" or wrote in entries such as Argentine, Chilean, Irish,
German, Russian, Italian, Israeli, Syrian, Lebanese, Iraqi, Polish, Spanish, or
Uruguayan."


Lets settle this now. There are no whites.
There are two skin colors: yellow and blue.

--
Michael Press
 




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