#11
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TdF and recumbents
On 28 jul, 12:56, "Edward Dolan" wrote:
snip I think to be fair about this, you would have to pit a faired recumbent against a faired upright in a largely mountainous terrain. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges and not getting to the heart of the question, which is - can recumbents climb hills as well as uprights? I say no. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota Ed, the going philosophy is that the size of the frontal area makes up most of the aerodynamic advantage that a recumbent has. An upright bike will possibly have a larger frontal area. When you really want to compare the same rider should ride both machines. In fact, the Chris Boardman and Greame Obree records are at a high level and set at high altitude race tracks, these are not yet broken by unfaired recumbent amateur riders. Jack |
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#12
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TdF and recumbents
"Jack" a écrit:
[snip] In fact, the Chris Boardman and Greame Obree records are at a high level and set at high altitude race tracks [snip] Boardman and Obree's records were all set near sea level - Hamar, Bordeaux, and Manchester. Indurain and Rominger also rode at Bordeaux. James Thomson |
#13
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TdF and recumbents
"Jack" wrote in message ... On 28 jul, 12:56, "Edward Dolan" wrote: snip I think to be fair about this, you would have to pit a faired recumbent against a faired upright in a largely mountainous terrain. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges and not getting to the heart of the question, which is - can recumbents climb hills as well as uprights? I say no. Ed, the going philosophy is that the size of the frontal area makes up most of the aerodynamic advantage that a recumbent has. An upright bike will possibly have a larger frontal area. When you really want to compare the same rider should ride both machines. In fact, the Chris Boardman and Greame Obree records are at a high level and set at high altitude race tracks, these are not yet broken by unfaired recumbent amateur riders. Jack Recumbents have an aerodynamic advantage, but is it enough to compensate for how the human body functions in the upright position as opposed to the recumbent position. I think not, at least not when it comes to climbing steep hills. By the way, I can already see the argument against using the same rider on both a recumbent and an upright. It will be argued that the rider is not as proficient on one as on the other. Anyway, I am not that fussy. I would just like to see a race (no drafting allowed) in the mountains with recumbents pitted against uprights - and I would prefer that they not be faired. I think that way we could plainly see once and for all that recumbents can't climb worth a damn. But anyone who has ever ridden a recumbent in the mountains already knows how slow they are. It is the first thing you learn about recumbents after your initial enthusiasm has worn off. If Mr. Sherman were to ride his recumbent in the mountains of the West or East he would soon be relieved of his illusions. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#14
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TdF and recumbents
Edward Dolan wrote:
"Jack" wrote in message ... On 28 jul, 12:56, "Edward Dolan" wrote: snip [cuuuuut] By the way, I can already see the argument against using the same rider on both a recumbent and an upright. It will be argued that the rider is not as proficient on one as on the other. Anyway, I am not that fussy. I would just I think that might be easily solveable. Imagien having a professional racing bike rider. Possible even a team. You let them have a race on a regular diamond frame bike where you monitor their power output. Then you give them recumbent bikes, possible let them train and get used to recumbents. Then you let them race on the same route as they did with the DF, while monitoring their power output. You might even do this on different routes of different length. If the recumbent bike style wins, then i think you can conclude that arguments like the rider not being as proficient on one bike as the other are irrelevant. Some recumbent bikes are faster than others, and some recumbent biking technic makes you go faster. I can feel the difference when i ride my cruzbike. If i pull my arms i go faster. And there should be one other advanced cruzbike technic that i havent learned yet. It's where your arms pulls contra when your leg pushes forward. This should give even more power. JonB |
#15
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TdF and recumbents
Jon Bendtsen wrote:
[cuuuuut] By the way, I can already see the argument against using the same rider on both a recumbent and an upright. It will be argued that the rider is not as proficient on one as on the other. Anyway, I am not that fussy. I would just I think that might be easily solveable. Imagien having a professional racing bike rider. Possible even a team. You let them have a race on a regular diamond frame bike where you monitor their power output. Then you give them recumbent bikes, possible let them train and get used to recumbents. Then you let them race on the same route as they did with the DF, while monitoring their power output. You might even do this on different routes of different length. If the recumbent bike style wins, then i think you can conclude that arguments like the rider not being as proficient on one bike as the other are irrelevant. Andy Wilkinson's UK End-toEnd record is a good case for recumebnts. When he set the record on a recumbent he beat the existing record held by... himself, on an upright! in other words, he had, if anything, considerably more upright experience yet still posted a better time on the 'bent. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#16
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TdF and recumbents
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
... Andy Wilkinson's UK End-toEnd record is a good case for recumebnts. When he set the record on a recumbent he beat the existing record held by... himself, on an upright! in other words, he had, if anything, considerably more upright experience yet still posted a better time on the 'bent. Dare I mention that it was faired? Was the upright? cheers, clive |
#17
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TdF and recumbents
"Clive George" wrote in message ... "Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Andy Wilkinson's UK End-toEnd record is a good case for recumebnts. When he set the record on a recumbent he beat the existing record held by... himself, on an upright! in other words, he had, if anything, considerably more upright experience yet still posted a better time on the 'bent. Dare I mention that it was faired? Was the upright? I suspect it is nick and tuck between recumbents and uprights on the flats, but it can't be that in the mountains. I just don't see how recumbents can climb hills at all well, fairing or no fairing. Recumbents have a well deserved reputation for not being able to climb hills. It is why all recumbents need to have very low gears compared to uprights. Regards, Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota aka Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota |
#18
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TdF and recumbents
Clive George wrote:
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message ... Andy Wilkinson's UK End-toEnd record is a good case for recumebnts. When he set the record on a recumbent he beat the existing record held by... himself, on an upright! in other words, he had, if anything, considerably more upright experience yet still posted a better time on the 'bent. Dare I mention that it was faired? Was the upright? It's quite a valid point, but there again one point about a Windcheetah is it's a lot better as a platform for mounting a fairing on than an upright racer. Which is why the velomobile industry is based on recumbent trikes, not upright bikes. The faired Moulton that holds an HPV sprint record would be completely impractical to ride for 40+ hours, unless you didn't want to stand up for about a month afterwards or actually see where you going for quite a lot of the time! In IHPVA competition there is nothing stopping faired uprights taking part in races, yet with few exceptions (like that sprinting Moulton) the designers stick to 'bents. I would suggest they do that as it works better. Pete. -- Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/ |
#19
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TdF and recumbents
Peter Clinch wrote:
Jon Bendtsen wrote: [cuuuuut] By the way, I can already see the argument against using the same rider on both a recumbent and an upright. It will be argued that the rider is not as proficient on one as on the other. Anyway, I am not that fussy. I would just I think that might be easily solveable. Imagien having a professional racing bike rider. Possible even a team. You let them have a race on a regular diamond frame bike where you monitor their power output. Then you give them recumbent bikes, possible let them train and get used to recumbents. Then you let them race on the same route as they did with the DF, while monitoring their power output. You might even do this on different routes of different length. If the recumbent bike style wins, then i think you can conclude that arguments like the rider not being as proficient on one bike as the other are irrelevant. Andy Wilkinson's UK End-toEnd record is a good case for recumebnts. When he set the record on a recumbent he beat the existing record held by... himself, on an upright! in other words, he had, if anything, considerably more upright experience yet still posted a better time on the 'bent. Good, i think we can then say that we can not argue that the rider is not as proficient on one as on the other. Was his bike a faired recumbent? JonB |
#20
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TdF and recumbents
Jack Dekker wrote:
On 28 jul, 12:56, "Edward Dolan" wrote: snip I think to be fair about this, you would have to pit a faired recumbent against a faired upright in a largely mountainous terrain. Otherwise, you are comparing apples to oranges and not getting to the heart of the question, which is - can recumbents climb hills as well as uprights? I say no. Ed, the going philosophy is that the size of the frontal area makes up most of the aerodynamic advantage that a recumbent has. An upright bike will possibly have a larger frontal area. When you really want to compare the same rider should ride both machines. In fact, the Chris Boardman and Greame Obree records are at a high level and set at high altitude race tracks, these are not yet broken by unfaired recumbent amateur riders. Boardman and Obree were putting out ca 450W during their record rides. By comparison, Sam Whittingham who has set the hour fully-faired record on a couple of occasions had an average output of about 280W during his runs, and Sam is considered one of the strongest recumbent racers. -- Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia “Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken / She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.” |
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