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Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 10th 09, 12:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Tom Kunich
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Posts: 6,456
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

"Robert Chung" wrote in message
...
Tom Kunich wrote:

Steel frames [...] are looking better all the time.


Justin's steel Bianchi was a great bike.


Steel bends while carbon breaks. Total failure of both frame materials is
about the same these days but the steel frame tends to fail in a manner that
throws you sideways while carbon failures puts you face first into the
ground. Ain't much fun.

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  #12  
Old June 10th 09, 12:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Tom Kunich
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Posts: 6,456
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
...

That's a severe oversimplification. You can build a very sturdy
low-spoke-count (20 front 24 rear) wheel that can last a very long time.
I've got a set of Bontrager XXX-Lites that now have 21,000 miles on them
and have literally never been touched with a spoke wrench.


I hope you've noticed that experienced cyclists ride a great deal
differently from riders with less than, say, two years? Experienced cyclists
tend to put a whole lot less strain on wheels because they watch where
they're going, recognize dangerous bumps that might be hard to see and they
also stand on the pedals and use their legs as springs over many bumps that
greatly reduces the loadings on wheels.

Nevertheless experienced cyclists do miss things and make mistakes. Low
spoke count light wheels are a lot less forgiving.

The issue is when we try to build stuff as close to the edge as possible,
and it's not the material used that's the problem, it's how it's used.


Certainly but who is going to buy a heavily built carbon bike when a steel
bike of equal strength cost half as much?

The problem isn't with the materials, and maybe it's not even the design.
Maybe it's people who are willing to shell out $7k+ for a cyclocross rig
that can be destroyed in one outing. Maybe the fact that there are
customers for that sort of bike has skewed what the industry believes we
want (or is appropriate).


The real problem is "ultra light". The average rider couldn't tell the
difference between an 18 lb bike and a 21 lb bike that would cost half as
much.

  #13  
Old June 10th 09, 01:17 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

"P. Chisholm" wrote in message
...
On Jun 9, 3:11 pm, "Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote:
"Robert Chung" wrote in message

...

http://www.velonews.com/article/9305...rience---a-pos...


This "modern" low spoke count wheels are failing like crazy. Not as
bad at
that one of course but more and more people are going over the bars.
Also
carbon frames are failing a lot more often than it's being let on.

Steel frames (though my Look and my Colnago are heavily enough built
that I
don't have to worry about it) and 32 spoke count wheels are looking
better
all the time.


Copy to Jim Beam


Wrong newsgroup (and glad you didn't copy the "right" one)

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


  #14  
Old June 10th 09, 01:18 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

"Robert Chung" wrote in message
...
Johnny Twelve-Point presented by JFT wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:16:46 -0700, "Robert Chung"
wrote:

http://www.velonews.com/article/9305...-wheel-failure


Yeah, that sounds like rider error. The error of riding wheels with
little carbon spokes.


Maybe I should have given this the subject line: "Mavic is shocked ...
shocked! ... at the news."


Perhaps. But one of the most-interesting things about this is that it
was in VeloNews, a publication that Mavic advertises in pretty heavily
if I recall correctly.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


  #15  
Old June 10th 09, 01:53 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
m...
"Robert Chung" wrote in message
...
Tom Kunich wrote:

Steel frames [...] are looking better all the time.


Justin's steel Bianchi was a great bike.


Steel bends while carbon breaks. Total failure of both frame materials
is about the same these days but the steel frame tends to fail in a
manner that throws you sideways while carbon failures puts you face
first into the ground. Ain't much fun.


Where is your (or anybody else's) evidence of this? Carbon generally
fails *after* the faceplant has already happened. What it does after the
rider is already on the ground is kinda irrelevant, don't you think?

Where carbon is a problem is in not understanding that it may have been
damaged in a previous crash, and the difficulty of finding that damage.
And worse, the human-nature thing of not *wanting* to find the damage.
You give it a cursory look and say "whew, dodged a bullet!" Instead of
considering that it's unlikely your bike was designed to take that sort
of impact. With steel, there's less chance of concealed damage, and,
ironically because of lower cost in some cases, more incentive to check
for damage. Weird, but I see this sort of thing frequently.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Tom Kunich" cyclintom@yahoo. com wrote in message
m...
"Robert Chung" wrote in message
...
Tom Kunich wrote:

Steel frames [...] are looking better all the time.


Justin's steel Bianchi was a great bike.


Steel bends while carbon breaks. Total failure of both frame materials
is about the same these days but the steel frame tends to fail in a
manner that throws you sideways while carbon failures puts you face
first into the ground. Ain't much fun.



  #16  
Old June 10th 09, 02:03 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
dave a
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Posts: 308
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

Tom Kunich wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message
...

How do you know that CF frames are failing more frequently than is
being reported?


Let's just say I know.


That's good enough for me!

  #17  
Old June 10th 09, 02:16 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Robert Chung[_2_]
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Posts: 814
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Perhaps. But one of the most-interesting things about this is that it
was in VeloNews, a publication that Mavic advertises in pretty heavily


Dumbass,

It happened to the Editor in Chief for Velonews. Think if it'd happened to
one of us (same circumstances same witnesses same article) they'd've
published it?


  #18  
Old June 10th 09, 02:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Bob Schwartz
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Posts: 1,060
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

Johnny Twelve-Point presented by JFT wrote:
On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 12:16:46 -0700, "Robert Chung"
wrote:

http://www.velonews.com/article/9305...-wheel-failure


Yeah, that sounds like rider error. The error of riding wheels with
little carbon spokes.


A SS spoke weighs 5-7 grams. I wonder how much weight they saved going
with carbon. After all there were 16 of them in that wheel.

Bob Schwartz
  #19  
Old June 10th 09, 03:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 2,972
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

"Robert Chung" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Perhaps. But one of the most-interesting things about this is that it
was in VeloNews, a publication that Mavic advertises in pretty
heavily


Dumbass,

It happened to the Editor in Chief for Velonews. Think if it'd
happened to one of us (same circumstances same witnesses same article)
they'd've published it?


The Editor in Chief, of all people, is made sensitive to the needs of
advertisers. More likely to see that sort of thing come out from a
less-senior staff member, and then an editor gets in all manner of
trouble for allowing it to be printed.

My guess is that Mavic made a monumental error in even suggesting the
possibility that the rider may have been at fault. That probably set him
off. Even if it's possible the rider *was* somehow responsible, that
sort of thing has to be handled very carefully when the rider has, well,
teeth. And the Editor of a cycling publication has teeth.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA


"Robert Chung" wrote in message
...
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Perhaps. But one of the most-interesting things about this is that it
was in VeloNews, a publication that Mavic advertises in pretty
heavily


Dumbass,

It happened to the Editor in Chief for Velonews. Think if it'd
happened to one of us (same circumstances same witnesses same article)
they'd've published it?




  #20  
Old June 10th 09, 03:48 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Howard Kveck
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Posts: 3,549
Default Post-recall R-Sys wheel failure

In article , dave a
wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:
"Scott" wrote in message
...

How do you know that CF frames are failing more frequently than is
being reported?


Let's just say I know.


That's good enough for me!


Oh yeah - the classic "Tom Kunich Magic Knowledge" rears its ugly head again.
heh...

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 




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