Don't make Lance Mad

Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote:

There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove oneself
is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
miserable.


I almost posted a longer reply.

This is a bunch of crap. WTF, it's a bike race. Winning is all that
matters.

Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" schreef in
bericht ...

Jonathan v.d. Sluis wrote:


"gooserider" schreef in bericht
m...


"Chris" wrote in message
. com...


"Jiyang Chen" wrote in message
...


"Chris" wrote in message
s.com...



That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a

few


moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden that

spit at


me.

But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.


I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

1) Quit
2) Use it as motivation

Obviously Lance used #2.


There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove

oneself

is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
don't really matter.

Jonathan.



1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.


Oh?


2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

Steve


Because he can say such incredibly ****ty things, but there is still debate
about whether he is a Nice Person or not. But he is full of pride, and
people like that act like bags of **** every now and then. It just happens
and I don't see why it causes such anger. He's just not (always) a nice man.
Perhaps he made a bad move by pretending to be a heroic role model rather
than a human being, but many people like such a thing and more power to him
if that's his way to earn a living.

And after being called anti-semitic just because I'm from Europe, this swipe
seemed rather mild.

Jonathan.



Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
the Nazis.
As far as Lance is concerned, I think he is a genuine hero, and
devoutly hope he does not turn out to have been a doper.
I am not aware that any of the legendary Tour de France champions would
win any popularity contests. My memory is that the French themselves
were ambivalent regarding Anquetil and Hinault, and no one thought
Indurain was Mr. Saturday Night.
Lance does owe good behavior to his fans and his sponsors, and to his
colleagues to play fair. I do not believe he has any responsibility to
(as Hinault says) give any gifts.
As far as the United States attitude toward guns,,,well, you may have a
point.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" schreef in
bericht ...
Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
the Nazis.

Thanks! It's not an entirely justified reputation though.

As far as Lance is concerned, I think he is a genuine hero, and
devoutly hope he does not turn out to have been a doper.

I don't think he is a hero, and I don't think he's clean. But Benjo Maso's
post has reluctantly convinced me, so we both hope he doesn't get caught.
Which is the same in a practical sense.

I am not aware that any of the legendary Tour de France champions would
win any popularity contests.

Fausto Coppi...
And Bartali too, I think. Between them? I don't know, but they were loved.

My memory is that the French themselves
were ambivalent regarding Anquetil and Hinault, and no one thought
Indurain was Mr. Saturday Night.

I thought Indurain was mainly boring, but I cared less for the tour in those
days. Most people in the Netherlands look the same towards Armstrong. Many
like him a lot.

Lance does owe good behavior to his fans and his sponsors, and to his
colleagues to play fair. I do not believe he has any responsibility to
(as Hinault says) give any gifts.
As far as the United States attitude toward guns,,,well, you may have a
point.

You were reading too much into it - I was just trying to say something that
was completely over the top. I did not realize that in the US, people
actually own machineguns.

Jonathan.

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:49:09 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:
while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
the Nazis.

Er, I think behind Germany itself, Holland the highest percentage of the
Jewish population deported, mainly because of efficient bureaucrats. Our
famous tolerance may have it roots in indifference.

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" a écrit dans le
message de :
...
But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
don't really matter.

Jonathan.



1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.
2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

Steve

Golly, Steve, such a literalist! "Fan" comes from "fanatic" which, in this
case, seems appropriate. There are supporters, enthusiasts, etc., but
fanatics just don't seem to have open ears or eyes.

Cult of the individual, huh ? Should we expect the publication of Lance's
little red book ?
--
Bonne route,

Sandy
Paris FR

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:

On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 10:49:09 -0400, Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS wrote:

while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
the Nazis.


Er, I think behind Germany itself, Holland the highest percentage of the
Jewish population deported, mainly because of efficient bureaucrats. Our
famous tolerance may have it roots in indifference.


Gee, the Netherlanders I've known always point at the Swedes! ;-)

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

SMMB wrote:

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" a écrit dans le
message de :
...

But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
don't really matter.

Jonathan.



1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.
2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

Steve


Golly, Steve, such a literalist! "Fan" comes from "fanatic" which, in this
case, seems appropriate. There are supporters, enthusiasts, etc., but
fanatics just don't seem to have open ears or eyes.

Cult of the individual, huh ? Should we expect the publication of Lance's
little red book ?


I rather doubt that Lance supporters could realistically be said to be
more fanatical than the tifosi. In any case, while I think Lance's is a
great story, I am not convinced he is clean. I'm sure there are folks
who will forgive him anything, but I'm not one of them.
The 800 lb. elephant in the room than no one is acknowledgeing is that
Lance is almost certainly a surrogate target for European citizens angry
at U.S. political and military policy. While this is understandable
(and probably unavoidable) this part of the Lance antipathy is unfair to
him.

Steve

--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote in message
...
"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" schreef in
bericht ...
Sorry, I didn't hear anything about you being called antisemitic--and
while it's certainly reasonable to think there may be an antisemite
somewhere in the Netherlands, I would say that your country's history
speaks for itself with regard to its history of protecting the Jews from
the Nazis.

Thanks! It's not an entirely justified reputation though.

As far as Lance is concerned, I think he is a genuine hero, and
devoutly hope he does not turn out to have been a doper.

I don't think he is a hero, and I don't think he's clean. But Benjo Maso's
post has reluctantly convinced me, so we both hope he doesn't get caught.
Which is the same in a practical sense.

Can you repost that?

I am not aware that any of the legendary Tour de France champions would
win any popularity contests.

Fausto Coppi...
And Bartali too, I think. Between them? I don't know, but they were loved.

My memory is that the French themselves
were ambivalent regarding Anquetil and Hinault, and no one thought
Indurain was Mr. Saturday Night.

I thought Indurain was mainly boring, but I cared less for the tour in
those
days. Most people in the Netherlands look the same towards Armstrong. Many
like him a lot.

Lance does owe good behavior to his fans and his sponsors, and to his
colleagues to play fair. I do not believe he has any responsibility to
(as Hinault says) give any gifts.
As far as the United States attitude toward guns,,,well, you may have a
point.

You were reading too much into it - I was just trying to say something
that
was completely over the top. I did not realize that in the US, people
actually own machineguns.

Jonathan.

"SMMB" wrote in message
...

"Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS" a écrit dans
le
message de :
...
But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
there would probably still be people defending him, so these
discussions
don't really matter.

Jonathan.



1) Armstrong didn't empty a machine gun.
2) Who would defend him, the Branch Davidians? Why would you take such
a gratuitous swipe at his fans?

Steve

Golly, Steve, such a literalist! "Fan" comes from "fanatic" which, in
this
case, seems appropriate. There are supporters, enthusiasts, etc., but
fanatics just don't seem to have open ears or eyes.

Cult of the individual, huh ? Should we expect the publication of Lance's
little red book ?
--
Bonne route,

Sandy
Paris FR

Steve seems to call them as he sees them, a staightshooter.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote in message
...
"gooserider" schreef in bericht
.. .

"Chris" wrote in message
. ..

"Jiyang Chen" wrote in message
...

"Chris" wrote in message
. ..

That is really nasty. I would understand his reaction, but then a
few
moments (if that) later I would remember that it was not Kloden
that
spit at
me.
But letting Kloden win would satisfy the fans that spit at you/him.

Yeah, that is what sports are all about. Getting back at fans.

I guess there are two ways to react to fan harrassment--

1) Quit
2) Use it as motivation

Obviously Lance used #2.

There are different ways of motivating yourself, and trying to prove
oneself
is a method worthy of more respect than just trying to make others
miserable. But then again, if Armstrong emptied a machinegun at the fans
there would probably still be people defending him, so these discussions
don't really matter.

Jonathan.



I get on my bike and torture myself, but knowing there is no race, no
crowds, nothing of importance to race against, but myself...and it's hard to
keep up at times. Something about the 'real' race, when competitors are
there, fighting you every inch, pulling at you to bring out the depths that
you never knew existed, that later you realize how so alive you were. Fans
are not just fans, but the life of the party; 'lugers' and all. But I do
think the times are a changin' and today's nastiness by the 'few' is much
deeper than what once existed for past champions.