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#51
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabledmotorists?
On 12 Jun, 16:17, JNugent wrote:
Doug wrote: On 12 Jun, 07:58, JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: "Guy Ballantine" wrote: In your first paragraph you say that cyclists are banned from areas that a wheelchair can go. Like where? Pedestrianised shopping areas. True. And more. And the interiors of shops and supermarkets. And the end of the row in a theatre or cinema. And railway platforms (believe it or not, but someone recently suggested that cyclists should be allowed to cycle along the platforms!). And what if they can cycle but find walking extremely painful due to the extra weight on their leg joints which is otherwise avoided by a saddle? There are very long railways platforms around these days. Can you not think of at least two separate good reasons for not allowing cycling on railway platforms? So why not name them? If one of them is that the cyclist might fall on the railway lines at speed, exactly the same applies to a manual wheelchair, which is allowed on platforms. So what is the other one then? -- Carfree Cities http://www.carfree.com/ Promoting practical alternatives to car dependence - walking, cycling and public transport. |
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#52
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
Doug wrote:
On 12 Jun, 15:54, "Nigel Cliffe" wrote: Doug wrote: On 11 Jun, 16:59, JNugent wrote: The Motability scheme allows a person to convert their Higher Rate Mobility Component (HRMC) of the Disability Living Allowance into a leased car. The recipient of HRMC is not obliged to use their HRMC to get a car, instead they could spend it, for example, on taxi fares, or a cycle or pogo sticks. Looking at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Disabled...ce/DG_10028000 It specifically mentions cars, powered wheelchairs or scooters. Nothing about cycles. You seem to be arguing with a lack of basic research. You seem to be arguing without any thought at all for some of the problems faced by some of the the disabled. Even if they are allowed to spend their HRMC or a grant on a cycle, which is questionable, Its completely clear. DLA is outlined at: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Disabled...rt/DG_10011731 DLA is paid into the recipients bank account. HMRC (the money which many use for a Motability leased car) is a component of DLA. Clearly the recipient can spend it as they wish. - Nigel -- Nigel Cliffe, Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/ |
#53
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
Doug wrote:
On 12 Jun, 15:54, "Nigel Cliffe" wrote: Doug wrote: On 11 Jun, 16:59, JNugent wrote: Doug wrote: Not only are disabled cyclists not generally recognised as such and are banned from many areas where wheelchair users are allowed but they are also excluded from many of the benefits enjoyed by disabled motorists, such as the following. [snip] No, you're wrong. The fact that a particular person owned a bicycle would not prevent them (if disabled) from being eligible for a car under the Motability scheme (or whatever it's now called). So they'd be treated exactly the same as anyone else. What if they didn't have a driving licence and didn't want to go through the rigmarole of getting one? Or, they had tried many times and failed? They can still get a Motability car and ask someone else to drive. Standard arrangement is that the car is covered for two other nominated drivers. I'm sure it could be extended to others if necessary. What if they live on their own and don't want to have to rely on someone else every time they need to go out? Much like an able bodied person who is unable/unwilling to drive is free to buy a car, tax and insure it, and then ask someone else to drive them around. The difference is that the disabled person gets benefits to help with their mobility, whereas the able bodied do not. (and quite rightly, that's one of the better uses for the taxes I pay). But, again, why do disabled motorists seem to get more help than disabled cyclists? The point is this, a disabled driver can stick a wheelchair in the boot of their car and is free to go loads of places where disabled cyclists are not allowed and the driver can get financial benefits that are denied cyclists. The Motability scheme allows a person to convert their Higher Rate Mobility Component (HRMC) of the Disability Living Allowance into a leased car. The recipient of HRMC is not obliged to use their HRMC to get a car, instead they could spend it, for example, on taxi fares, or a cycle or pogo sticks. Looking at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Disabled...ce/DG_10028000 It specifically mentions cars, powered wheelchairs or scooters. Nothing about cycles. You seem to be arguing with a lack of basic research. You seem to be arguing without any thought at all for some of the problems faced by some of the the disabled. Even if they are allowed to spend their HRMC or a grant on a cycle, which is questionable, disabled cyclists are still banned from many places that motorists with wheelchairs can go. "Motorists with wheelchairs"? How about "people with wheelchairs"? |
#54
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
Doug wrote:
On 12 Jun, 16:17, JNugent wrote: Doug wrote: On 12 Jun, 07:58, JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: "Guy Ballantine" wrote: In your first paragraph you say that cyclists are banned from areas that a wheelchair can go. Like where? Pedestrianised shopping areas. True. And more. And the interiors of shops and supermarkets. And the end of the row in a theatre or cinema. And railway platforms (believe it or not, but someone recently suggested that cyclists should be allowed to cycle along the platforms!). And what if they can cycle but find walking extremely painful due to the extra weight on their leg joints which is otherwise avoided by a saddle? There are very long railways platforms around these days. Can you not think of at least two separate good reasons for not allowing cycling on railway platforms? So why not name them? If one of them is that the cyclist might fall on the railway lines at speed, exactly the same applies to a manual wheelchair, which is allowed on platforms. That is true. But the cycle is capable of much higher speeds and is much less inherently stable than a four-wheel vehicle, meaning that the likelihood of an over-the-edge-of-the-platform accident is much higher, whilst additionally, wheelchair users, if banned from railway platforms, would simply be unable to access railway trains, whereas a cyclist, by definition, has to be able to move independently of the bicycle and so has to be capable of accessing the railway on foot (unless it is your belief that it is possible for completely immobile people - eg, quadraplegics - to ride bicycles). So what is the other one then? The other one is even more obvious, and for a South Londoner, you seem to have forgotten that many railway platforms are very crowded places. A bicycle ridden on the platform (especially at the moment a train is approaching) would represent a completely unacceptable risk to innocent others. Be pushed in front of a moving train and it's game over. Anyone who would advocate allowing cycling on railway platforms must be mad or sociopathic (yes, I know one is a sub-set of ther other). |
#55
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
Rob Morley wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:58:28 +0100 JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: "Guy Ballantine" wrote: In your first paragraph you say that cyclists are banned from areas that a wheelchair can go. Like where? Pedestrianised shopping areas. True. And the interiors of shops and supermarkets. And the end of the row in a theatre or cinema. I wouldn't find a bike useful in those situations, but I would in pedestrianised shopping areas. I don't care how "useful" the cyclist may find it. It would be too dangerous for others. A pedestrianised area is for... pedestrians. Live with it. And railway platforms (believe it or not, but someone recently suggested that cyclists should be allowed to cycle along the platforms!). I think there are situations in which it's reasonable and useful to cycle on railway platforms. You obviously don't. I don't care how "useful" the cyclist may find it. It would be too dangerous for others. |
#56
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:36:24 +0100, JNugent wrote:
Rob Morley wrote: On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:58:28 +0100 JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: "Guy Ballantine" wrote: In your first paragraph you say that cyclists are banned from areas that a wheelchair can go. Like where? Pedestrianised shopping areas. True. And the interiors of shops and supermarkets. And the end of the row in a theatre or cinema. I wouldn't find a bike useful in those situations, but I would in pedestrianised shopping areas. I don't care how "useful" the cyclist may find it. It would be too dangerous for others. A pedestrianised area is for... pedestrians. Live with it. But pedestrian areas often allow delivery vehicles and even busses and taxis sometimes .... but not bicycles. And we all know bicycles are much more dangerous than white vans. The Daily Mail said so. -- (\__/) M. (='.'=) Owing to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and (")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking most articles posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by everyone you will need use a different method of posting. See http://improve-usenet.org |
#57
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
Mark wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 10:36:24 +0100, JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:58:28 +0100 JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: "Guy Ballantine" wrote: In your first paragraph you say that cyclists are banned from areas that a wheelchair can go. Like where? Pedestrianised shopping areas. True. And the interiors of shops and supermarkets. And the end of the row in a theatre or cinema. I wouldn't find a bike useful in those situations, but I would in pedestrianised shopping areas. I don't care how "useful" the cyclist may find it. It would be too dangerous for others. A pedestrianised area is for... pedestrians. Live with it. But pedestrian areas often allow delivery vehicles and even busses and taxis sometimes .... but not bicycles. And we all know bicycles are much more dangerous than white vans. The Daily Mail said so. |
#58
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
Mark wrote:
JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: JNugent wrote: Rob Morley wrote: "Guy Ballantine" wrote: In your first paragraph you say that cyclists are banned from areas that a wheelchair can go. Like where? Pedestrianised shopping areas. True. And the interiors of shops and supermarkets. And the end of the row in a theatre or cinema. I wouldn't find a bike useful in those situations, but I would in pedestrianised shopping areas. I don't care how "useful" the cyclist may find it. It would be too dangerous for others. A pedestrianised area is for... pedestrians. Live with it. But pedestrian areas often allow delivery vehicles and even busses and taxis sometimes .... but not bicycles. Delivery vehicles are essential to shopping areas (whether pedestrianised or not). Bikes aren't. Unfortunately, due to the laws of nature and the historical growth of most urban areas, some pedestrianised zones cannot have specialised separate access for delivery and other essential vehicles - particulrly true where the zone consists simply of a network of town-centre streets as opposed to a new-build multi-level "shopping centre". That is a disadvantage, but one which is insurmountable unless deliveries are banned (or only allowed at dead of night). I agree with you that no streets should be closed to certain classes of traffic (unless the banned traffic consists of particularly large vehicles unsuited to the conditions). If an area is "too dangerous" for bikes and cars, it's also too dangerous for buses and lorries. But buses and taxis travelling thrugh pedestrian-areas? Really? Or do you mean they use streets which traverse otherwise pedestrian-only areas in which private transport (including bikes) is prohibited? I can see the argument for that, even though I don't agree with it. |
#59
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
On 12 Jun 2008 15:59:14 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
wrote: Quoting Dave Larrington : One Kevin Hickman has but one leg, yet has still managed an SR series on a normal bike. I met him on last year's Cheddar Gorge 300, where he proved embarrassingly faster up hills with a single leg than I could manage with two. Well, he's light for his height and build, but with the same cardiovascular system as two-legged people. But he'd be useless as Tarzan. -- Tim I understand very little of what's being discussed but for some reason it's fascinating. (Jon Thompson, urs) |
#60
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Why aren't disabled cyclists treated the same as disabled motorists?
Tim Hall wrote:
On 12 Jun 2008 15:59:14 +0100 (BST), David Damerell wrote: Quoting Dave Larrington : One Kevin Hickman has but one leg, yet has still managed an SR series on a normal bike. I met him on last year's Cheddar Gorge 300, where he proved embarrassingly faster up hills with a single leg than I could manage with two. Well, he's light for his height and build, but with the same cardiovascular system as two-legged people. But he'd be useless as Tarzan. I've got nothing against his remaining leg. Unfortunately... |
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