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Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 27th 03, 01:06 PM
Lester Long
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)

"Nick Burns" wrote in message
m...
"RK" wrote in message
patch70 wrote in message
If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people?

If
so, the geometry is unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the

one
you find more comfortable.


Lemonds are made by Trek, and the geometry is very different -- longer
top-tube, more seattube setback, to accomodate the longer femur that
professional racers tend to have.


This is mostly true. The only time it was not true was when the Lemond

brand
was purchased without any real design properties. IOW, they wanted the

name
and the rest would come later, so they slapped some Lemond decals on
existing Trek models but measured them c-t while Trek normally measures

c-c.
This made it look like the Lemond bike were "really long for the *femur*"
(get over it Greg) and it worked from a marketing standpoint. In defense

of
Trek, they did have Greg pen some designs (or at least have the designers
use some of his published design preferences) and now they do have

exclusive
geometry and design AFAIK.

With regard to Klein, this company was purchased several years ago and

Gary
Klein has thus far been able to maintain every aspect of his design
uniqueness. This says good things about both Trek and Klein, IMO.

Still, Klein and Trek may use slightly different approaches, but they are
going after the same market do their fit is not going to be terribly
different from one another, but the larger scale of the Trek line does

allow
the "WSF" models, which AFAIK are not available with Klein.


This thread is taking a *.tech flavor, so...I suggest if it continues

along
these lines it should be cross-posted and \ or moved over. (Although I

don't
care, since many tech issues are race related, so whatever you dudes

want).

Thanks for all the great replies to my thread!

My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm
bike. The WSF models are all too small for her, and thus she's confined to
the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer, since
both bikes are targeted to the same market.

Regards,
Lester








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  #2  
Old September 27th 03, 02:25 PM
Ewoud Dronkert
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:06:11 GMT, Lester Long wrote:
is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike.


That sounds about right, but I think 58cm may be a better fit because
of a slightly shorter top tube (generally, women have relatively
longer legs). The height isn't *that* much of an issue.
  #3  
Old September 27th 03, 05:24 PM
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)

My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm
bike. The WSF models are all too small for her, and thus she's confined

to
the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer, since
both bikes are targeted to the same market.

Regards,
Lester


Lester: The Klein & TREK product ride very differently; subtle changes in
geometry product not-so-subtle changes in ride. With a Klein she'd go for a
58cm (the 61cm would have too-long a top tube), while TREK it very well
might be a 60cm. Keep in mind that a 60cm TREK has a slightly-shorter top
tube than a 58cm Klein (comparing a 60cm 2300 to a 58cm Klein Aura in this
case)... yet the Klein has a slightly-longer wheelbase. There are a number
of little things that add up to a significantly different ride. One isn't
really better than the other, with the exception of fit considerations, and
Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate, since
there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws
women to them.

You are correct that there are no WSD (Women Specific Design) bikes in a
large enough size for her; they generally fit up to about 5'7" or so.

Your best bet is to have her ride each bike, making sure they're set up
similarly. It wouldn't be a fair comparison to test-ride a Klein with a
super-short stem and a TREK with a super-long one, and vice versa. Cockpit
dimensions (distance from seat to bars, drop in height from seat to bars,
distance from pedals to seat and setback of seat from bottom bracket) should
all be set the same on each bike. That way she'll be evaluating the bike,
not some random aspect of fit. And it will also show if one bike simply
can't quite be made to fit right.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


  #4  
Old September 27th 03, 06:14 PM
Nick Burns
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)


"Mike Jacoubowsky" wrote in message
m...
My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a

60cm
bike. The WSF models are all too small for her, and thus she's confined

to
the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer,

since
both bikes are targeted to the same market.

Regards,
Lester


Lester: The Klein & TREK product ride very differently; subtle changes in
geometry product not-so-subtle changes in ride. With a Klein she'd go for

a
58cm (the 61cm would have too-long a top tube), while TREK it very well
might be a 60cm. Keep in mind that a 60cm TREK has a slightly-shorter top
tube than a 58cm Klein (comparing a 60cm 2300 to a 58cm Klein Aura in this
case)... yet the Klein has a slightly-longer wheelbase. There are a

number
of little things that add up to a significantly different ride. One isn't
really better than the other, with the exception of fit considerations,

and
Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,

since
there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws
women to them.

You are correct that there are no WSD (Women Specific Design) bikes in a
large enough size for her; they generally fit up to about 5'7" or so.

Your best bet is to have her ride each bike, making sure they're set up
similarly. It wouldn't be a fair comparison to test-ride a Klein with a
super-short stem and a TREK with a super-long one, and vice versa.

Cockpit
dimensions (distance from seat to bars, drop in height from seat to bars,
distance from pedals to seat and setback of seat from bottom bracket)

should
all be set the same on each bike. That way she'll be evaluating the bike,
not some random aspect of fit. And it will also show if one bike simply
can't quite be made to fit right.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com




I agree with Mike and would add that the Klein will be more stable. This
also sometimes fills the needs of women that want rock solid linear
stability at all speeds.

The Trek is also good in these aspects of handling and someone that wants
stable but quicker response to input may prefer the Trek.

This is really a tough choice. For all of the differences, these two bikes
IMO are after almost the same market and I think they (Trek) expect the
material preference and brand issues to be the biggest differentiators (is
that a word or did I make that up?). In spite of originating from very
different approaches, these two bike over time have been honed to evolve in
to almost the same niche.

It really may come down to ride preference, appearance, or concerns over
durability. I think they both have lifetime frame warranties (take note
Justin), is that correct Mike?




  #5  
Old September 27th 03, 09:01 PM
Jason Spaceman
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)

Lester Long wrote:

Thanks for all the great replies to my thread!

My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm
bike. The WSF models are all too small for her, and thus she's confined
to
the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer, since
both bikes are targeted to the same market.

Regards,
Lester


I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam and I ordered the 60cm 5200. The guy at the
store mentioned that Treks tend to fit smaller than other bikes. I hope
that the 60cm is right for me. I test drove a 58cm and that was too small,
and I tried out a 61cm bike (not a Trek, as they didn't have any that
large), and it felt too big.


J. Spaceman



  #6  
Old September 28th 03, 09:03 AM
Per Löwdin
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)


Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,

since
there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws
women to them.


Maybe for large women. However, it does not apply to the small Kleins. My
wife rides a Quantum 48cm and an xs Adroit. She loves both. Only major
drawback is the integrated headset the Kleins came with for years. When they
turn bad it is not easy to service them. Not even the Klein dealers have
parts in stock : (

Per


  #7  
Old September 28th 03, 03:51 PM
Matt O'Toole
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)


"Per Löwdin" wrote in message
...

Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,

since
there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws
women to them.


Maybe for large women. However, it does not apply to the small Kleins. My
wife rides a Quantum 48cm and an xs Adroit. She loves both.


I know a couple of pixie gals who love their Kleins too.

Only major
drawback is the integrated headset the Kleins came with for years. When they
turn bad it is not easy to service them. Not even the Klein dealers have
parts in stock : (


Those suck. Unfortunately, they're becoming more prevalent. However, you
should be able to get a retrofit kit, to install a standard headset.

Matt O.


  #8  
Old September 29th 03, 07:59 AM
Per Löwdin
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)


Those suck. Unfortunately, they're becoming more prevalent. However, you
should be able to get a retrofit kit, to install a standard headset.


Well, this summer, we did get problems with Elisabeth´s headset in Frisco.
http://w1.185.telia.com/~u18515267/Coloradoeast2.jpg

Although there are some pretty good bike shops in Colorado we were told that
it would be at least a week for them to get the necessary bearing and tools
from Klein. As the darn bike was getting dangerous we phoned Titus who had
an xs Riddler in stock and could overnight it to Salida where we could pick
it up at Absolutebikes the next day. Absolute helped us move everything that
could be salvaged over to the Riddler. She opted for a CK headset for it.
The Kleins may be sexy with idiocsyncratic solutions but it can surely cost
a lot. We had the choice between not biking for week on our cycle holiday,
or buying a new frame, fork, front deraileur, headset, stem, and saddlepost.
We did the latter http://w1.185.telia.com/~u18515267/Raiderridge1.JPG

With regard to retrofiting, there are adapters. They are made by a German
precision manufacturer, Reset Racing http://www.reset-racing.com/ they have
several sets for Kleins http://www.reset-racing.de/reset/reset2.htm
http://www.reset-racing.de/reset/reset2a.htm. Seems to be a fairly
complicated operation, one for which you need a mechanic with plenty of
experience of working on Kleins. At that Reset Racing does not "accept
credit cards yet."

The Adroit is still in Salida. Absolutebikes has since fixed the headset,
got a new bearing and the special tools you need from Trek/Fisher. We are
trying to decide what to do with. Apart from the flaw it is a wonderfully
handling frame.

Per
http://user.tninet.se/~ipg289h/fu99/MTB.html



  #9  
Old September 29th 03, 02:00 PM
Hjalmar Duklćt
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Posts: n/a
Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)


My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm
bike. The WSF models are all too small for her, and thus she's confined

to
the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer, since
both bikes are targeted to the same market.

I'm exactly the same size as your wife and ride a Trek 5500 size 58 with a
120mm stem. Suits me very well indeed.
Hjalmar


  #10  
Old September 29th 03, 06:47 PM
Matt O'Toole
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Default Klein vs. Trek (crossposted)


"Per Löwdin" wrote in message
...

Those suck. Unfortunately, they're becoming more prevalent. However, you
should be able to get a retrofit kit, to install a standard headset.


Well, this summer, we did get problems with Elisabeth´s headset in Frisco.
http://w1.185.telia.com/~u18515267/Coloradoeast2.jpg

Although there are some pretty good bike shops in Colorado we were told that
it would be at least a week for them to get the necessary bearing and tools
from Klein. As the darn bike was getting dangerous we phoned Titus who had
an xs Riddler in stock and could overnight it to Salida where we could pick
it up at Absolutebikes the next day. Absolute helped us move everything that
could be salvaged over to the Riddler. She opted for a CK headset for it.
The Kleins may be sexy with idiocsyncratic solutions but it can surely cost
a lot. We had the choice between not biking for week on our cycle holiday,
or buying a new frame, fork, front deraileur, headset, stem, and saddlepost.
We did the latter http://w1.185.telia.com/~u18515267/Raiderridge1.JPG


A lot of people, especially those working at bike manufacturers, seem to forget
that this kind of service is very important. It's what we *should* be getting
when we buy multi-thousand-dollar bicycles, especially from major brands that
supposedly have dealers and service everywhere. We only have so much vacation
time, we have to plan our trips ahead and spend a lot of money ahead of time --
only to have it all ruined by some flaky jackass who can't/won't find a part in
his messy warehouse, and doesn't know what Fedex is.

Kudos to Absolute Bikes for pulling it all together for you. We should all be
so lucky to have a shop like that nearby.

Frankly, I'd send Klein the bill -- just to make the point, if nothing else.

With regard to retrofiting, there are adapters. They are made by a German
precision manufacturer, Reset Racing http://www.reset-racing.com/ they have
several sets for Kleins http://www.reset-racing.de/reset/reset2.htm
http://www.reset-racing.de/reset/reset2a.htm. Seems to be a fairly
complicated operation, one for which you need a mechanic with plenty of
experience of working on Kleins.


Any good machine shop should be able to do this, but unless you're plugged into
the machine shop scene, those are harder to find than good bike shops. And it's
likely to cost some bucks...

At that Reset Racing does not "accept
credit cards yet."


See? Flaky...

Interesting that these appear in Germany -- where it rains an awful lot, and
Klein service is across an ocean.

The Adroit is still in Salida. Absolutebikes has since fixed the headset,
got a new bearing and the special tools you need from Trek/Fisher. We are
trying to decide what to do with. Apart from the flaw it is a wonderfully
handling frame.


If the paint is still in nice shape, it'll sell for a good price on eBay --
especially since it's been upgraded with a real headset.

Matt O.


 




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