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#111
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You really couldn't make it up...
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#112
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You really couldn't make it up...
On 20/07/2013 10:06, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:59:35 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 17:31, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 16:56:53 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 14:30, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:18:54 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 07:41, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote: On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote: In article , (JNugent) wrote: Police Car...? OK... Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully". I stand by my answer. So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a bicycle being ridden along it, do you? Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other world. Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight. I have driven my car on the footway several times today. Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London. http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy On the map display, it asks: "Is something missing"? The answer is; "Yes, the so-called criminals referred to by the previous poster". That's because they have left the scene of their crime. The evidence remains. Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one example to show you. I did find this, where cyclists are actively encouraged to ride on the footway: http://goo.gl/maps/oDsyV You don't need a weatherman... Let's be clear about this. In any circumstance where it is lawful and acceptable to drive a motor car on a footway, it is equally legal and acceptable for a bicycle to be used in the same way. Thus, any vehicle can cross a footway for access to off-road land, including a private dwelling, or a space which looks as though it physically forms part of the footway but has, in fact, been reserved for parking, of whatever sort of vehicle. There may be other, equally lawful, circumstances. What I am referring to is the footway being used as the route for part of a journey, other than the very beginning or the very end of it. And you and others *know* that. Oh - so it is OK to drive on the footway so long as it is to park on (and obstruct) the footway? It is OK wherever it is not an offence to park on (part of) the footway. As you are well aware, there are places where LA signage indicates that parking on part of the width is not only allowed, but in some cases, encouraged by the painting of parking bays. This is admittedly usually in locations where the footway shows signs of once having had part of its width under cultivation. I am, of course, only concerned about motorists driving on, parking on and obstructing parts of the footway where this is not permitted. In my experience it is a far far bigger problem than cyclists on the footway, who scare people more often than cause real harm. It would be difficult to attribute *any* harm at all to cars parked on, or partly on, the footway, with the possible (and oft-cited) cracking of flagstones (do many places still use flagstones? There are certainly none hereabouts). That does not mean that I condone or recommend the practice. OK - your attitude to driving along to obstruct by parking on the footway is very similar to my attitude to cycling along the footway. While I don't condone or recommend the practice, I find it difficult to attribute any harm in it so long as the cyclist shows due respect to legitimate footway users. Yes, but most cyclists *don't*. I have far more concern with motor vehicles on the footway. Not only do they damage the footway, they cause significant obstacles to certain groups of legitimate footway users - parents with buggies, the disabled, the elderly, couples or groups wanting to chat and walk side by side, etc, etc, etc... Your difficulty is that except in London, it isn't usually illegal. OTOH, if drivers were in the habit of travelling along the footway as a normal part of their journey, I would condemn that. And to the negligible extent that any drivers might be in that habit, I do so now without hesitation, just as I know you will condemn cyclists doing the same thing.. Still waiting. |
#113
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You really couldn't make it up...
On 20/07/2013 11:11, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote: On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:59:35 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 17:31, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 16:56:53 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 14:30, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:18:54 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 07:41, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote: On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote: In article , (JNugent) wrote: Police Car...? OK... Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully". I stand by my answer. So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a bicycle being ridden along it, do you? Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other world. Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight. I have driven my car on the footway several times today. Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London. http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy On the map display, it asks: "Is something missing"? The answer is; "Yes, the so-called criminals referred to by the previous poster". That's because they have left the scene of their crime. The evidence remains. Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one example to show you. I did find this, where cyclists are actively encouraged to ride on the footway: http://goo.gl/maps/oDsyV You don't need a weatherman... Let's be clear about this. In any circumstance where it is lawful and acceptable to drive a motor car on a footway, it is equally legal and acceptable for a bicycle to be used in the same way. Thus, any vehicle can cross a footway for access to off-road land, including a private dwelling, or a space which looks as though it physically forms part of the footway but has, in fact, been reserved for parking, of whatever sort of vehicle. There may be other, equally lawful, circumstances. What I am referring to is the footway being used as the route for part of a journey, other than the very beginning or the very end of it. And you and others *know* that. Oh - so it is OK to drive on the footway so long as it is to park on (and obstruct) the footway? It is OK wherever it is not an offence to park on (part of) the footway. As you are well aware, there are places where LA signage indicates that parking on part of the width is not only allowed, but in some cases, encouraged by the painting of parking bays. This is admittedly usually in locations where the footway shows signs of once having had part of its width under cultivation. I am, of course, only concerned about motorists driving on, parking on and obstructing parts of the footway where this is not permitted. In my experience it is a far far bigger problem than cyclists on the footway, who scare people more often than cause real harm. It would be difficult to attribute *any* harm at all to cars parked on, or partly on, the footway, with the possible (and oft-cited) cracking of flagstones (do many places still use flagstones? There are certainly none hereabouts). That does not mean that I condone or recommend the practice. OK - your attitude to driving along to obstruct by parking on the footway is very similar to my attitude to cycling along the footway. While I don't condone or recommend the practice, I find it difficult to attribute any harm in it so long as the cyclist shows due respect to legitimate footway users. I have far more concern with motor vehicles on the footway. Not only do they damage the footway, they cause significant obstacles to certain groups of legitimate footway users - parents with buggies, the disabled, the elderly, couples or groups wanting to chat and walk side by side, etc, etc, etc... OTOH, if drivers were in the habit of travelling along the footway as a normal part of their journey, I would condemn that. And to the negligible extent that any drivers might be in that habit, I do so now without hesitation, just as I know you will condemn cyclists doing the same thing.. It is far easier and safer for almost anyone to negotiate a relatively smooth stationary vehicle parked partly or even wholly on a pavement, than it is to negotiate an obscenity screaming, slobbering, smelly oaf on a moving bike (with lots of sticky out bits) that may approach from any direction . That is undoubtedly true, but it doesn't mean that I recommend or condone pavement parking. |
#114
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You really couldn't make it up...
JNugent wrote:
On 20/07/2013 11:11, Mrcheerful wrote: Bertie Wooster wrote: On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:59:35 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 17:31, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 16:56:53 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 14:30, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:18:54 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 07:41, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote: On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote: In article , (JNugent) wrote: Police Car...? OK... Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully". I stand by my answer. So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a bicycle being ridden along it, do you? Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other world. Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight. I have driven my car on the footway several times today. Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London. http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy On the map display, it asks: "Is something missing"? The answer is; "Yes, the so-called criminals referred to by the previous poster". That's because they have left the scene of their crime. The evidence remains. Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one example to show you. I did find this, where cyclists are actively encouraged to ride on the footway: http://goo.gl/maps/oDsyV You don't need a weatherman... Let's be clear about this. In any circumstance where it is lawful and acceptable to drive a motor car on a footway, it is equally legal and acceptable for a bicycle to be used in the same way. Thus, any vehicle can cross a footway for access to off-road land, including a private dwelling, or a space which looks as though it physically forms part of the footway but has, in fact, been reserved for parking, of whatever sort of vehicle. There may be other, equally lawful, circumstances. What I am referring to is the footway being used as the route for part of a journey, other than the very beginning or the very end of it. And you and others *know* that. Oh - so it is OK to drive on the footway so long as it is to park on (and obstruct) the footway? It is OK wherever it is not an offence to park on (part of) the footway. As you are well aware, there are places where LA signage indicates that parking on part of the width is not only allowed, but in some cases, encouraged by the painting of parking bays. This is admittedly usually in locations where the footway shows signs of once having had part of its width under cultivation. I am, of course, only concerned about motorists driving on, parking on and obstructing parts of the footway where this is not permitted. In my experience it is a far far bigger problem than cyclists on the footway, who scare people more often than cause real harm. It would be difficult to attribute *any* harm at all to cars parked on, or partly on, the footway, with the possible (and oft-cited) cracking of flagstones (do many places still use flagstones? There are certainly none hereabouts). That does not mean that I condone or recommend the practice. OK - your attitude to driving along to obstruct by parking on the footway is very similar to my attitude to cycling along the footway. While I don't condone or recommend the practice, I find it difficult to attribute any harm in it so long as the cyclist shows due respect to legitimate footway users. I have far more concern with motor vehicles on the footway. Not only do they damage the footway, they cause significant obstacles to certain groups of legitimate footway users - parents with buggies, the disabled, the elderly, couples or groups wanting to chat and walk side by side, etc, etc, etc... OTOH, if drivers were in the habit of travelling along the footway as a normal part of their journey, I would condemn that. And to the negligible extent that any drivers might be in that habit, I do so now without hesitation, just as I know you will condemn cyclists doing the same thing.. It is far easier and safer for almost anyone to negotiate a relatively smooth stationary vehicle parked partly or even wholly on a pavement, than it is to negotiate an obscenity screaming, slobbering, smelly oaf on a moving bike (with lots of sticky out bits) that may approach from any direction . That is undoubtedly true, but it doesn't mean that I recommend or condone pavement parking. Due to the age of housing stock pavement parking is a necessary evil. |
#115
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You really couldn't make it up...
"Mrcheerful" wrote
It is far easier and safer for almost anyone to negotiate a relatively smooth stationary vehicle parked partly or even wholly on a pavement, than it is to negotiate an obscenity screaming, slobbering, smelly oaf on a moving bike (with lots of sticky out bits) that may approach from any direction . Here's a tip. Reduce the number of bottles you buy in your weekly shop. You would be able to walk in a straighter line and the cyclist will be able to find a way round you more easily. It's even possible that you stop imagining things. |
#116
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You really couldn't make it up...
"Mrcheerful" wrote
Due to the age of housing stock pavement parking is a necessary evil. Pity things have gone too far to introduce Japanese style restrictions. |
#117
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You really couldn't make it up...
On 20/07/2013 12:15, Mrcheerful wrote:
JNugent wrote: On 20/07/2013 11:11, Mrcheerful wrote: Bertie Wooster wrote: On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 00:59:35 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 17:31, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 16:56:53 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 14:30, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:18:54 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 19/07/2013 07:41, Bertie Wooster wrote: On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:35:33 +0100, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 19:14, Tosspot wrote: On 18/07/13 11:35, JNugent wrote: On 18/07/2013 02:03, Paul Cummins wrote: In article , (JNugent) wrote: Police Car...? OK... Just for the kids, I'll throw in the word "unlawfully". I stand by my answer. So you insist that I will - or anyone - see a police car being driven along the footway more frequently than we will see a bicycle being ridden along it, do you? Just to clarify, I meant Planet Earth, not your obviously-other world. Well, if it's any help. I saw 4 being driven on a pavement tonight. I have driven my car on the footway several times today. Cars being illegally driven onto, and parked, on the footway by criminals is a chronic problem in parts of London. http://goo.gl/maps/HKNEy On the map display, it asks: "Is something missing"? The answer is; "Yes, the so-called criminals referred to by the previous poster". That's because they have left the scene of their crime. The evidence remains. Clare, who works in Central London says that cyclists on the footway is a chronic problem also. However, I have scoured Google Streetview on the area around Kingsway, where Clare works, but have not found one example to show you. I did find this, where cyclists are actively encouraged to ride on the footway: http://goo.gl/maps/oDsyV You don't need a weatherman... Let's be clear about this. In any circumstance where it is lawful and acceptable to drive a motor car on a footway, it is equally legal and acceptable for a bicycle to be used in the same way. Thus, any vehicle can cross a footway for access to off-road land, including a private dwelling, or a space which looks as though it physically forms part of the footway but has, in fact, been reserved for parking, of whatever sort of vehicle. There may be other, equally lawful, circumstances. What I am referring to is the footway being used as the route for part of a journey, other than the very beginning or the very end of it. And you and others *know* that. Oh - so it is OK to drive on the footway so long as it is to park on (and obstruct) the footway? It is OK wherever it is not an offence to park on (part of) the footway. As you are well aware, there are places where LA signage indicates that parking on part of the width is not only allowed, but in some cases, encouraged by the painting of parking bays. This is admittedly usually in locations where the footway shows signs of once having had part of its width under cultivation. I am, of course, only concerned about motorists driving on, parking on and obstructing parts of the footway where this is not permitted. In my experience it is a far far bigger problem than cyclists on the footway, who scare people more often than cause real harm. It would be difficult to attribute *any* harm at all to cars parked on, or partly on, the footway, with the possible (and oft-cited) cracking of flagstones (do many places still use flagstones? There are certainly none hereabouts). That does not mean that I condone or recommend the practice. OK - your attitude to driving along to obstruct by parking on the footway is very similar to my attitude to cycling along the footway. While I don't condone or recommend the practice, I find it difficult to attribute any harm in it so long as the cyclist shows due respect to legitimate footway users. I have far more concern with motor vehicles on the footway. Not only do they damage the footway, they cause significant obstacles to certain groups of legitimate footway users - parents with buggies, the disabled, the elderly, couples or groups wanting to chat and walk side by side, etc, etc, etc... OTOH, if drivers were in the habit of travelling along the footway as a normal part of their journey, I would condemn that. And to the negligible extent that any drivers might be in that habit, I do so now without hesitation, just as I know you will condemn cyclists doing the same thing.. It is far easier and safer for almost anyone to negotiate a relatively smooth stationary vehicle parked partly or even wholly on a pavement, than it is to negotiate an obscenity screaming, slobbering, smelly oaf on a moving bike (with lots of sticky out bits) that may approach from any direction . That is undoubtedly true, but it doesn't mean that I recommend or condone pavement parking. Due to the age of housing stock pavement parking is a necessary evil. You know my views on this. If you (not you in particular - anyone) can't park a car off road - on land entirely within your control - at home, you ought not to be allowed to keep one at that address. It was the only thing Doug consistently got right. It would create a market for garaging space (those who have garaging space haven't acquired its use free of charge either) and it would clear streets for moving traffic and parking whilst away from home instead of letting local residents pre-empt it.. |
#118
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You really couldn't make it up...
TMS320 wrote:
"Mrcheerful" wrote It is far easier and safer for almost anyone to negotiate a relatively smooth stationary vehicle parked partly or even wholly on a pavement, than it is to negotiate an obscenity screaming, slobbering, smelly oaf on a moving bike (with lots of sticky out bits) that may approach from any direction . Here's a tip. Reduce the number of bottles you buy in your weekly shop. You would be able to walk in a straighter line and the cyclist will be able to find a way round you more easily. It's even possible that you stop imagining things. Tell that to all the OAPs that suffer broken hips and worse when they are hit by these bicycle weapons. |
#119
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You really couldn't make it up...
On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 10:18:47 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote: snip Guidance he https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...e-pavement.pdf Ah yes : "Guidance". Not mandatory then. |
#120
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You really couldn't make it up...
On Saturday, 20 July 2013 11:55:46 UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
It would be difficult to attribute *any* harm at all to cars parked on, or partly on, the footway, though it's easy enough to react with hysteria, as you are doing. Concern for others isn't one of your strong points, is it. There are many reasons why flagstones are disappearing, but parking on them is not one of them. Actually, it is. |
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