Carbon component design news

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to prevent this failure.

On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a sturdy
MTB steel bar.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 3/9/21 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged
three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to
prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg


Should have been that link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar2.jpg

This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a sturdy
MTB steel bar.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 1:25:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 3/9/21 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged
three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to
prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

Should have been that link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar2.jpg
This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a sturdy
MTB steel bar.

That was a pretty odd break. It appears to be made out of the wrong aluminum alloy.

On 3/9/2021 3:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 1:25:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 3/9/21 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged
three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to
prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

Should have been that link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar2.jpg
This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a sturdy
MTB steel bar.

That was a pretty odd break. It appears to be made out of the wrong aluminum alloy.


Liner wasn't in the right place.
Well known defect, see also:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo1.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo2.jpg

Then again handlebars, just like everything else, can fail
in various ways:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/failbar.jpg

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/failbar2.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 2:28:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/9/2021 3:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 1:25:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 3/9/21 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged
three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to
prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

Should have been that link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar2.jpg
This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a sturdy
MTB steel bar.

That was a pretty odd break. It appears to be made out of the wrong aluminum alloy.

Liner wasn't in the right place.
Well known defect, see also:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo1.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo2.jpg

Then again handlebars, just like everything else, can fail
in various ways:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/failbar.jpg

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/failbar2.jpg

What was the failure mode on that last one? Tangling with a sasquatch?

-- Jay Beattie.

On 3/9/2021 4:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 2:28:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/9/2021 3:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 1:25:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 3/9/21 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged
three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to
prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

Should have been that link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar2.jpg
This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a sturdy
MTB steel bar.

That was a pretty odd break. It appears to be made out of the wrong aluminum alloy.

Liner wasn't in the right place.
Well known defect, see also:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo1.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo2.jpg

Then again handlebars, just like everything else, can fail
in various ways:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/failbar.jpg

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/failbar2.jpg

What was the failure mode on that last one? Tangling with a sasquatch?

-- Jay Beattie.


No idea. We started to remove the old tape and found it,
with the two Ergo cables, made a sorta splint holding the
shattered bar in place.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 3/9/2021 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/9/2021 4:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 2:28:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/9/2021 3:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 1:25:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 3/9/21 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged
three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to
prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my
aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

Should have been that link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar2.jpg
This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a
sturdy
MTB steel bar.

That was a pretty odd break. It appears to be made out of the wrong
aluminum alloy.

Liner wasn't in the right place.
Well known defect, see also:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo1.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo2.jpg

Then again handlebars, just like everything else, can fail
in various ways:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/failbar.jpg

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/failbar2.jpg

What was the failure mode on that last one?Â* Tangling with a sasquatch?

-- Jay Beattie.


No idea.Â* We started to remove the old tape and found it, with the two
Ergo cables, made a sorta splint holding the shattered bar in place.

I'm curious about how common handlebar breakage is. I know one guy who
broke one maybe 30 years ago. He was a masher riding a time trial bike
with brake cables inside the bar, for aerodynamics. The handlebar
snapped at the cable's exit hole in the bar when he sprinted away from a
standing stop. (Lesson: Don't drill holes in handlebars.)

I have one bar that bent a bit in a crash, and another that I retired
just based on its old age. But I can't think of anyone else I know who
actually broke one.

Anybody here besides Joerg actually break one?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 6:57:06 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 3/9/2021 6:25 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/9/2021 4:49 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 2:28:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/9/2021 3:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, March 9, 2021 at 1:25:04 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 3/9/21 12:47 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 3/8/21 8:43 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, March 8, 2021 at 5:48:04 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...r#.YEYq8BKNWOI


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Canyon KNEW this was a weak spot and specifically designed a hinged
three piece lever/bar clamp. Evidently even this was not enough to
prevent this failure.


Higher end manufacturers seem to screw up at times. This was my
aluminum
handlebar break which resulted in a nasty crash and bad injuries:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

And the design mistake became blatantly obvious:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar1.jpg

Should have been that link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/Handlebar2.jpg
This was from ITM Mondial, not a cheap bar. I replaced it with a
sturdy
MTB steel bar.

That was a pretty odd break. It appears to be made out of the wrong
aluminum alloy.

Liner wasn't in the right place.
Well known defect, see also:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo1.jpg
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/pivo2.jpg

Then again handlebars, just like everything else, can fail
in various ways:
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...st/failbar.jpg

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfr...t/failbar2.jpg

What was the failure mode on that last one? Tangling with a sasquatch?

-- Jay Beattie.


No idea. We started to remove the old tape and found it, with the two
Ergo cables, made a sorta splint holding the shattered bar in place.
I'm curious about how common handlebar breakage is. I know one guy who
broke one maybe 30 years ago. He was a masher riding a time trial bike
with brake cables inside the bar, for aerodynamics. The handlebar
snapped at the cable's exit hole in the bar when he sprinted away from a
standing stop. (Lesson: Don't drill holes in handlebars.)

I have one bar that bent a bit in a crash, and another that I retired
just based on its old age. But I can't think of anyone else I know who
actually broke one.

Anybody here besides Joerg actually break one?

I broke the OE Cinelli bar on my first 2005-ish Cannondale CX bike. The bars lasted a few years tops and then broke probably at the end of the reinforcing insert, maybe an inch or two from the stem/bar clamp. That side of the bar came off while riding to work. I didn't crash. None of my ancient Cinelli bars broke -- or any other of the many bars I've owned. My wife had some Scott bars that were really springy, but no failures.

Andrew has more data points than me by far, but just listening to my cohorts, bar failures are rare. I did one broken bar case at work, but I represented an innocent bystander who manufactured the bar ends (ControlTech). The uber-light MTB bars that broke were manufactured by a Chinese knock-off company. My expert in that case was the head of products at Easton, and I got a great education in handlebar design -- most of which I've forgotten. The bottom line was that you could make good light bars or just light bars. The Chinese company cut a lot of corners to get the weight down but did little engineering. Other interesting issues in that case were the Foreign Sovereign Immunity Act (all Chinese corporations back then were state owned), and faux Chinese insurance companies. Woe unto domestic sellers of Chinese products.

-- Jay Beattie.