#71
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300k+ a year
"Sandy" wrote in message ... On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien réfléchi et puis a déclaré...: wrote in message ... "Kurgan. presented by wrote in message ... On Jan 2, 12:30 am, wrote: I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said. Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete. If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just reality. You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can have it. I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If pro men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their salaries from bike racing. How ****ed up it that? I'd say the men are worse off, unless you are in the top tier, which is a very elite group. There's no need for them to race full time unless they are very good like Neben or Stevens, since they will focus on the Olympics. Considering some women get paid as much as 30k to race a bike here in the domestic scene, when you add in their workplace jobs, it makes what the pro men do look silly. Even getting half of what men make, say 15k with their jobs is still much better deal then what those full time men are doing. How many men are working regular jobs at the elite level? Let's face it, bike racing doesn't pay very well for either sex unless you are in a handful of elite men like Lance and company. You gaver him the last word - keep your word, already! That's easy, he'll get the last word anyway. |
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#72
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300k+ a year
GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
"Sandy" wrote in message ... On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien réfléchi et puis a déclaré...: wrote in message ... "Kurgan. presented by wrote in message ... On Jan 2, 12:30 am, wrote: I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said. Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete. If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just reality. You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can have it. I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If pro men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their salaries from bike racing. How ****ed up it that? I'd say the men are worse off, unless you are in the top tier, which is a very elite group. There's no need for them to race full time unless they are very good like Neben or Stevens, since they will focus on the Olympics. Considering some women get paid as much as 30k to race a bike here in the domestic scene, when you add in their workplace jobs, it makes what the pro men do look silly. Even getting half of what men make, say 15k with their jobs is still much better deal then what those full time men are doing. How many men are working regular jobs at the elite level? Let's face it, bike racing doesn't pay very well for either sex unless you are in a handful of elite men like Lance and company. You gaver him the last word - keep your word, already! That's easy, he'll get the last word anyway. Retard, It only looks that way because you use Outlook Express. Bob Schwartz |
#73
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300k+ a year
"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message news William Asher wrote: Amit Ghosh wrote in : On Jan 2, 1:30 pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote: I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If pro men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in thei r salaries from bike racing. dumbass, you're comparing apples to oranges. True, but this thread is almost as good as the "riding off of rollers" thread in terms of the cognitive dissonance. Dumbass, No, no, no. For cognitive dissonance you have to look at a guy like Fennelli, who is in total denial about the hordes of top level women racers that live near him. His denial is so complete that he doesn't even recognize 38th on NRC as a place to find top level women racers. Sheesh. Bob Schwartz Dip****, I listed a few who were cat 1,2,3,4. So big ****ing deal, where's there smoke there's fire. I bet there have been several pro riders that came out of UCSB and Goleta, SB over the past few decades. I never said they were superstars, but they placed well in some races against some well known names at that time. NRC was just a reference to the fact some racers particapaded in NRC events, which means they were more then just rec riders. He didn't clarify what his thoughts were until later, so its not my mistake for pointing out a few riders who did race from SB. |
#74
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300k+ a year
Bruce, you said:
Riders from Santa Barbara... Meredith Mills and Jennifer Gabet are both Cat 1-2, from Santa Barbara, Gabet is from Goleta. Angela Rebol is from Santa Barbara, how about Michelle La Pierre or Amanda McCoy, all from Santa Barbara. Amy Nett, Lila Ferguson and Angela Bell are all pro cyclists from Santa Barbara. So, because I don't like exaggerations or faulty implications, I said: I'm sorry, but you are wrong in this matter. ... ... they are not pro bike racers. This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national level. We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your examples still don't fly. Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period. And then you went on to say: I have a friend who lives in Goleta ... He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries. And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked: who is your friend in Goleta who races? And you responed: He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few things. Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions above. You said: I did talk with Petra Rossner this year at some lengths, but I guessing you are wondering how much Stevens is getting. I don't know either. I guessing Arndt should be one of the highest paid, not sure about Anderson salary either, but I'm guessing Arndt was making anywhere from 50-75k, even more in some years. If she's not getting 50k, I would say that is a pity and a shock. I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject ....even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting information. Mark |
#75
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300k+ a year
"Bob Schwartz" wrote in message ... GoneBeforeMyTime wrote: "Sandy" wrote in message ... On 02-Jan-10 12:30, GoneBeforeMyTime a bien réfléchi et puis a déclaré...: wrote in message ... "Kurgan. presented by wrote in message ... On Jan 2, 12:30 am, wrote: I didn't say obsolete, just not current or in the loop is what I said. Knowledge can be outdated but not obsolete. If there's not more publicity, there's not more money. That's just reality. You're one of those guys who has to have the last word. Ok, you can have it. I would add a lot of women probably make more then full time pro men. If pro men are getting around 35k a year to race a bike, pro women are probably making more then that working full or part time jobs when you add in their salaries from bike racing. How ****ed up it that? I'd say the men are worse off, unless you are in the top tier, which is a very elite group. There's no need for them to race full time unless they are very good like Neben or Stevens, since they will focus on the Olympics. Considering some women get paid as much as 30k to race a bike here in the domestic scene, when you add in their workplace jobs, it makes what the pro men do look silly. Even getting half of what men make, say 15k with their jobs is still much better deal then what those full time men are doing. How many men are working regular jobs at the elite level? Let's face it, bike racing doesn't pay very well for either sex unless you are in a handful of elite men like Lance and company. You gaver him the last word - keep your word, already! That's easy, he'll get the last word anyway. Retard, It only looks that way because you use Outlook Express. Bob Schwartz ****head, Thousands of people use the free Outlook news agent, get over it. The bugs are a minor issue to me. |
#76
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300k+ a year
In article ,
Donald Munro wrote: Donald Munro wrote: If she was Canadian it wouldn't have cost a penny (or dime or whatever the Canadian currency equivalent is). Scott wrote: No, I'm pretty sure even Canadians pay for the health care they get. They just pay it to a US-based doctor. Dumbass, I think we will have to continue responding to each others trolls since no one on rbr seems to appreciate our trolling talents. Either that or we should try trolling alt.mensa or join Mr Vidmar in the chess groups and try trolling them. As far as I can tell the chess groups have no concept of trolling (or humor). It will be a lonely endeavor, since nobody will ever snap to; and without credit for the same reason. -- Michael Press |
#77
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300k+ a year
GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
I listed a few who were cat 1,2,3,4. So big ****ing deal, where's there smoke there's fire. I bet there have been several pro riders that came out of UCSB and Goleta, SB over the past few decades. True, but only on the mens' side. The exception is Lynn Brontzman/Gaggioli who went to UCSB. I cannot think of any other examples of pro women from this area. For that matter, I cannot think of a single cat 1 woman from here. Kim Anderson only recently moved here, so she doesn't count. I never said they were superstars, but they placed well in some races against some well known names at that time. NRC was just a reference to the fact some racers particapaded in NRC events, which means they were more then just rec riders. He didn't clarify what his thoughts were until later, so its not my mistake for pointing out a few riders who did race from SB. I'm searching for an easy-to-agree-on distinction between recreational racing and what you are considering "pro" and I'm struggling. Just because a woman racer can and does enter an event that has real Pro women participating, it does not put her on that level. Same thing definitely applies to the mens' side. |
#78
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300k+ a year
"marco" wrote in message ... This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national level. Hold on, my take from your post is you said recreational riders which I took to mean not serious riders like Cat 1-2. You said quote "but none of them ever aspired to be more than recreational bike racers." Plus you said none of them raced on a national level. If they were in the NRC rankings and raced in NRC races as Cat 1-2, then they are not recreational bike racers. At least not in my opinion when they also finish well or ahead of some very big names. Whatever they aspired to, that's for them to say, but if they are racing NRC calandar, then that is national level even if they didn't race often. I never said they were superstars either, so their aspirations is not what I was seaching for, only results from SB. I never said they raced often enough nationwide to be taken seriously either, but on the surface, it seems there were a few. I found a few who raced on the NRC circuit and out of state races which were neither local or regional races. In those races, my placed well against some well known names at that time. There were some cat 1-2, others were 3,4, but IIRC, it was the cat -1-2 who had the best results there. I was offering this up on the fly, this is not something terribly important, just rbr chat after new years celebrations. Don't take it too seriously, but I would be really surprised if there were not others from SB over the years. We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your examples still don't fly. I'm aware of the UCI declaration that a Pro women is someone who rides for a UCI team and recieves a paid salary. Here in America, top women are the Pro 1-2, and I am talking about 1-2, not UCI pros. I never said UCI pro women of any sort came from SB. On earnings, you are probably right, those women made little if any money at that time, so they wouldn't really be considered paid professionals like Tibco, etc. Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period. My inquires were about cat 1-2, not UCI women. We call them Pro 1-2, but I consider Pro 1-2 to be serious bike racers, they are the only ones I watch, and that's all we got. They are decent, and they train hard at times, although some work part or full time jobs. And then you went on to say: I have a friend who lives in Goleta ... He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries. And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked: who is your friend in Goleta who races? And you responed: He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few things. You are a sticker for every word, and I know you hate to lose arguments in rbr, but I am not trying to win this one. Why does everything have to be a he said, she said, attack and defend discussion? I made a small mistake there, but so what. That's not even important. That info is really not something I want to post here anyway cause it personal, more for email. He did some MB racing I believe, but not road racing I don't think. He does singles and doubles, but that's not even the point. The point is, he might know a few things about who raced over the years, cause he was always a big fan of bike racing. You used to do the same stuff years ago questioning if I had ever been to SB, so why are you so suspect? My friends lived right there on Milpas just a few miles from the beach, right up the street from Fess Parkers Red Lion resort, and yes I have rode there with my friends and been to SB a zillion times, but why would that surprise you? You know where Jordanos is, you can always go check out my story. One of my best friends works at the Art Musuem on state street. Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions above. I don't take RBR that seriously; it's not a credible place, more like bar talk, so they are not transgressions, especially around new years. It's just shooting the bull pretty much here. This is not a serious bike forum, if you can even call it a bike forum, the good posters seem to have all left, and mostly is just hecklers hanging out now. There is a lot of static to sort through here, and sometimes you got to throw a lot of **** out there for someone to chime in with some interesting anecdotes. Not my standard tactic, although some people revel in that. I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject ...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting information. Same here, I don't ask women about their salaries, its taboo. Race organizations, team directors and managers are the ones I ask. For instance with Tibco, I would ask someone like Jeff Corbett instead of one of the women riders. You know who to ask. |
#79
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300k+ a year
GoneBeforeMyTime wrote:
"marco" wrote in message ... This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national level. Hold on, my take from your post is you said recreational riders which I took to mean not serious riders like Cat 1-2. You said quote "but none of them ever aspired to be more than recreational bike racers." Plus you said none of them raced on a national level. If they were in the NRC rankings and raced in NRC races as Cat 1-2, then they are not recreational bike racers. At least not in my opinion when they also finish well or ahead of some very big names. Whatever they aspired to, that's for them to say, but if they are racing NRC calandar, then that is national level even if they didn't race often. I never said they were superstars either, so their aspirations is not what I was seaching for, only results from SB. I never said they raced often enough nationwide to be taken seriously either, but on the surface, it seems there were a few. I found a few who raced on the NRC circuit and out of state races which were neither local or regional races. In those races, my placed well against some well known names at that time. There were some cat 1-2, others were 3,4, but IIRC, it was the cat -1-2 who had the best results there. I was offering this up on the fly, this is not something terribly important, just rbr chat after new years celebrations. Don't take it too seriously, but I would be really surprised if there were not others from SB over the years. We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your examples still don't fly. I'm aware of the UCI declaration that a Pro women is someone who rides for a UCI team and recieves a paid salary. Here in America, top women are the Pro 1-2, and I am talking about 1-2, not UCI pros. I never said UCI pro women of any sort came from SB. On earnings, you are probably right, those women made little if any money at that time, so they wouldn't really be considered paid professionals like Tibco, etc. Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period. My inquires were about cat 1-2, not UCI women. We call them Pro 1-2, but I consider Pro 1-2 to be serious bike racers, they are the only ones I watch, and that's all we got. They are decent, and they train hard at times, although some work part or full time jobs. And then you went on to say: I have a friend who lives in Goleta ... He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries. And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked: who is your friend in Goleta who races? And you responed: He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few things. You are a sticker for every word, and I know you hate to lose arguments in rbr, but I am not trying to win this one. Then shut up. Why does everything have to be a he said, she said, attack and defend discussion? I made a small mistake there, but so what. That's not even important. That info is really not something I want to post here anyway cause it personal, more for email. He did some MB racing I believe, but not road racing I don't think. He does singles and doubles, but that's not even the point. The point is, he might know a few things about who raced over the years, cause he was always a big fan of bike racing. You used to do the same stuff years ago questioning if I had ever been to SB, so why are you so suspect? My friends lived right there on Milpas just a few miles from the beach, right up the street from Fess Parkers Red Lion resort, and yes I have rode there with my friends and been to SB a zillion times, but why would that surprise you? You know where Jordanos is, you can always go check out my story. One of my best friends works at the Art Musuem on state street. Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions above. I don't take RBR that seriously; it's not a credible place, more like bar talk, so they are not transgressions, especially around new years. It's just shooting the bull pretty much here. This is not a serious bike forum, if you can even call it a bike forum, the good posters seem to have all left, and mostly is just hecklers hanging out now. There is a lot of static to sort through here, and sometimes you got to throw a lot of **** out there for someone to chime in with some interesting anecdotes. Not my standard tactic, although some people revel in that. I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject ...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting information. Same here, I don't ask women about their salaries, its taboo. Race organizations, team directors and managers are the ones I ask. For instance with Tibco, I would ask someone like Jeff Corbett instead of one of the women riders. You know who to ask. |
#80
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300k+ a year
On Jan 2, 5:13*pm, "GoneBeforeMyTime" wrote:
"marco" wrote in message ... This thread is about money-making women bike racers and you've suggested some have come from Santa Barbara. When I asked who, you listed names of some very nice women who were neither pro nor competitive at a national level. Hold on, my take from your post is you said recreational riders which I took to mean not serious riders like Cat 1-2. You said quote "but none of them ever aspired to be more than recreational bike racers." Plus you said none of them raced on a national level. If they were in the NRC rankings and raced in NRC races as Cat 1-2, then they are not recreational bike racers.. At least not in my opinion when they also finish well or ahead of some very big names. Whatever they aspired to, that's for them to say, but if they are racing NRC calandar, then that is national level even if they didn't race often. I never said they were superstars either, so their aspirations is not what I was seaching for, only results from SB. I never said they raced often enough nationwide to be taken seriously either, but on the surface, it seems there were a few. I found a few who raced on the NRC circuit and out of state races which were neither local or regional races. In those races, my placed well against some well known names at that time. There were some cat 1-2, others were 3,4, but IIRC, it was the cat -1-2 who had the best results there. I was offering this up on the fly, this is not something terribly important, just rbr chat after new years celebrations. Don't take it too seriously, but I would be really surprised if there were not others from SB over the years. We have a semantics problem and I think it's on your end. Strictly speaking, "Pro" means you are on a UCI professional team and you have a UCI professional license. I'll even expand that definition on the women's side to include the Webcor's and the Tibco's or any individual woman racer who is competitive (as in, earning money) on a national level. Your examples still don't fly. I'm aware of the UCI declaration that a Pro women is someone who rides for a UCI team and recieves a paid salary. Here in America, top women are the Pro 1-2, and I am talking about 1-2, not UCI pros. I never said UCI pro women of any sort came from SB. On earnings, you are probably right, those women made little if any money at that time, so they wouldn't really be considered paid professionals like Tibco, etc. Please don't confuse cat 2's and below as "pro". Women bike racers are generally not so delusional to make this mistake, but it's rampant on the men's side. In the men's case, the strict definition applies: Not on a UCI-registered team == Not Pro. Period. My inquires were about cat 1-2, not UCI women. We call them Pro 1-2, but I consider Pro 1-2 to be serious bike racers, they are the only ones I watch, and that's all we got. They are decent, and they train hard at times, although some work part or full time jobs. And then you went on to say: I have a friend who lives in Goleta ... He does both MB and road racing, plus single and double centuries. And since I know most everyone in town who races, I asked: who is your friend in Goleta who races? And you responed: He doesn't race, but he might know a few things. His thing is single and double centuries. He lived there all his life, so he might know a few things. You are a sticker for every word, and I know you hate to lose arguments in rbr, but I am not trying to win this one. Why does everything have to be a he said, she said, attack and defend discussion? I made a small mistake there, but so what. That's not even important. That info is really not something I want to post here anyway cause it personal, more for email. He did some MB racing I believe, but not road racing I don't think. He does singles and doubles, but that's not even the point. The point is, he might know a few things about who raced over the years, cause he was always a big fan of bike racing. You used to do the same stuff years ago questioning if I had ever been to SB, so why are you so suspect? My friends lived right there on Milpas just a few miles from the beach, right up the street from Fess Parkers Red Lion resort, and yes I have rode there with my friends and been to SB a zillion times, but why would that surprise you? You know where Jordanos is, you can always go check out my story. One of my best friends works at the Art Musuem on state street. Bruce, I don't mean to argue with you in the typical rbr fashion, but these exaggerations don't help your credibility. And in my opinion, you do know a lot about women's pro bike racing, despite your transgressions above. I don't take RBR that seriously; it's not a credible place, more like bar talk, so they are not transgressions, especially around new years. It's just shooting the bull pretty much here. This is not a serious bike forum, if you can even call it a bike forum, the good posters seem to have all left, and mostly is just hecklers hanging out now. There is a lot of static to sort through here, and sometimes you got to throw a lot of **** out there for someone to chime in with some interesting anecdotes. Not my standard tactic, although some people revel in that. I'll admit to being curious about their salaries, and I certainly have plenty of opportunities to ask Kim, but it seems too tacky of a subject ...even for me. I just thought you might have some interesting information. Same here, I don't ask women about their salaries, its taboo. Race organizations, team directors and managers are the ones I ask. For instance with Tibco, I would ask someone like Jeff Corbett instead of one of the women riders. You know who to ask. Goddamn you are verbose. |
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